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The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

drericlevi.substack.com

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Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#72

Most of the issues mentioned in the article and the included email are concerning, however they also oddly seem to be common in many places across the globe. The surgeon mentioned was in Australia, I have seen these issues first hand in the Netherlands and am aware of very similar of the first 2 out of 3 issues (caused by overwork/understaffing/over-fatigue etc) in Belgium, Germany, the UK, India and god knows how ma…

I think it has to do with the cost structure of the good. Healthcare is dominated by labour costs, which means in industrializing economies it lags behind in productivity and labour starts getting squeezed to try and keep prices at a reasonable level. A pilot, despiute being in a highly skilled profession, is only a small part of the puzzle when it comes to the cost of flights.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#73
post #30

Something I've never quite understood is why, in the UK, we cap the number of medical students per year. I've known very bright people who aspired to be doctors but had their applications turned down only to go on to do phds and become scientists instead. I'd rather have twice as many doctors who work sensible hours rather than the status quo burn out. Looks like there are calls to change this. https://commonslibrary…

Because doctors' associations and regulatory bodies (like AAMC in the US) lobby to keep it that way to keep the value of their profession up.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#74
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The understaffed healthcare system works with overworked doctors on the basis that having a tired and overworked doctor is a lot of the times better than having no doctor at all, because (s)he most likely can end up saving more lives than taking with their tired brain. If your operations have a 90% survivability rate it could still be considered a success despite those 10% they end up killing, because 90% is a lot be…

Sorry, that is bollocks. That is the story most people believe, and makes for a convenient story for those people actually to blame. Funnily, it is also the story most doctors themselves seem to chose to believe in. First, those are not the only choices. There is also the the option of training and hiring more doctors. 2 Probably, there is also an option of making more efficient use of doctors time, but that one is m…

I think having more physicians is the core thing.

The US stands out in having so few physicians per capita (per 1000 it's 3.6 in the US, here in Sweden it's 7.1, in Germany 4.5, Spain in 4.6). This has been discussed before here before, and I don't think it was controversial that a sensible solution was to simply have more physicians.

I think one major thing that the US is doing wrong with that which is not so well known is that the training starts rather late in life. Thus you get less out of the physicians you train. Here in Sweden a physician has a MSc in medicine and is ready to meet patients and be trained when he's 23, and I think this has the benefit that there's no need to overwork them.

By the time they're 30 they'll have all the experience the need without having been overworked, and not sleeping enough kills intelligence, memory, drive, all mental qualities one may have.

I think these two policies, ensuring that people graduate earlier-- removing the pre-med and having people start right away with a medicine program, and graduating in 5.5 years, that's the right approach.

Physicians would earn less, but they'd have substantially better lives. Being able to start younger also means success younger, and happier families.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#75

Most of the issues mentioned in the article and the included email are concerning, however they also oddly seem to be common in many places across the globe. The surgeon mentioned was in Australia, I have seen these issues first hand in the Netherlands and am aware of very similar of the first 2 out of 3 issues (caused by overwork/understaffing/over-fatigue etc) in Belgium, Germany, the UK, India and god knows how ma…

My assumption is that is a doctor does nothing the situation will get worse. So therefore them doing anything is seen as a step in the right direction, they will improve things over the base line?

A pilot isn’t in charge of a deteriorating situation, then doing something could make things worse below the base line (a tiredness induced mistake) so therefore make sure the only do stuff when fit to do so?

Note I’ve used questions on both of these examples as it’s more of a half thought and a feeling that a statement or fully fleshed out thought.

I guess the summary is, I’d rather have a tired doctor work on me in an emergency than no doctor work on me. I’d rather not fly on the plane than have a dangerously tired pilot fly the plane.

That’s being said the system clearly needs improving and we need more medical professionals to balance the work load.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#76
post #61

Most of the issues mentioned in the article and the included email are concerning, however they also oddly seem to be common in many places across the globe. The surgeon mentioned was in Australia, I have seen these issues first hand in the Netherlands and am aware of very similar of the first 2 out of 3 issues (caused by overwork/understaffing/over-fatigue etc) in Belgium, Germany, the UK, India and god knows how ma…

The answer is implied, right there in the first paragraph: "... I’ve never been diagnosed with a mental illness." At least in the US, there's a kind of masochistic pride in the physician community, that everything he described in his essay is laudable, noble, to be emulated. Nowhere does he acknowledge the risks to his patients or whether the costs are worth it in the end, or if a different system might be better. An…

> Nowhere does he acknowledge the risks to his patients or whether the costs are worth it in the end, or if a different system might be better

c.f.

"...everything is rushed, and mistakes are bound to occur."

"I am realising more and more that what brings me greatest distress is the relentless administrative pressure which take away the meaningful clinical engagement I have with my patients."

"I was burned out and I couldn’t control my emotions at work and at home. I’m not inherently an offensive or rude person, I’m just a person pushed to the limits and set to fail because of the circumstances around my work."

> In the end in his mindset whatever he's complaining about is better than the alternatives, which is ceding over some of the care responsibilities to others or opening up healthcare to a more competitive market so he's not the only provider who could provide those service

This is Australia, which does not have artificial restrictions on the supply of doctors to the same extent. On the other hand, they don't have a surplus of surgeons nor can nurse practitioners do the work

> (note the comment about denying other physicians income).

Yah, he's saying that if he doesn't come in, the backlog gets worse, and other people don't get paid.

> He's proud he's never sought help or tried to change anything.

He says he would like to seek support, but highlights the structural problems that prevent it:

"I know where I can get support, but practically, when and how am I going to get that support?"

"In addition, doctors who scream for help may be formally reported, therefore having restrictions placed on their practice and then incurring higher medical indemnity fees in some situations. Trainees who ask for help may be labelled as underperforming and have to be commenced on probation or remediation. We may not have practical access to the support that are often advertised."

I absolutely am in agreement with you that the things done to artificially lower the supply of residency training in the US are terrible. But those criticisms don't seem to apply to this essay.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#77
post #61

Most of the issues mentioned in the article and the included email are concerning, however they also oddly seem to be common in many places across the globe. The surgeon mentioned was in Australia, I have seen these issues first hand in the Netherlands and am aware of very similar of the first 2 out of 3 issues (caused by overwork/understaffing/over-fatigue etc) in Belgium, Germany, the UK, India and god knows how ma…

The answer is implied, right there in the first paragraph: "... I’ve never been diagnosed with a mental illness." At least in the US, there's a kind of masochistic pride in the physician community, that everything he described in his essay is laudable, noble, to be emulated. Nowhere does he acknowledge the risks to his patients or whether the costs are worth it in the end, or if a different system might be better. An…

> At least in the US, there's a kind of masochistic pride in the physician community,

But the question is why does the rest of society insist that pilots be properly rested but not doctors? I'm sure a lot of pilots would also work crazy amounts of overtime if allowed.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#78
Thanks for sharing. This is so disheartening. The other day I was debating with my friends how a doctors life is so cool that they don’t have to go though grueling coding interviews every single time they want to change jobs, don’t have to prove themselves every single quarter, don’t have to be answerable to anyone or write performance reviews or be subjected to arbitrary rubrics. Boy, I was so wrong. Every procession has its hazards. This has been a learning for me. Although I do feel that the PCP doctors in US seem to have a simpler life. They leave office at 5 and don’t take calls in the night. Happy to be corrected though.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#79
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The understaffed healthcare system works with overworked doctors on the basis that having a tired and overworked doctor is a lot of the times better than having no doctor at all, because (s)he most likely can end up saving more lives than taking with their tired brain. If your operations have a 90% survivability rate it could still be considered a success despite those 10% they end up killing, because 90% is a lot be…

What about the meta-game, where doctors get burnt out or suicide, and that increases pressure on the remaining doctors, in a negative feedback loop. We should impose work limits on doctors, just like pilots.

What I don't understand:

Say I'm a doctor, and I declare I will only work my 40 hours (or however much a full time is where you are). I will literally leave when my time is up. Oh, and I don't pick up phones outside of work. Or read emails.

What will anyone else do about it? Fire me? Then they have even less doctors...

It seems to me doctors do have the power to change things, even without collectivizing. But for some reason I don't understand, it doesn't seem to work out.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#80

Most of the issues mentioned in the article and the included email are concerning, however they also oddly seem to be common in many places across the globe. The surgeon mentioned was in Australia, I have seen these issues first hand in the Netherlands and am aware of very similar of the first 2 out of 3 issues (caused by overwork/understaffing/over-fatigue etc) in Belgium, Germany, the UK, India and god knows how ma…

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