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Why is it so hard to build an airport?

construction-physics.com

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Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#71

Post by traceroute66 »

xrd wrote: post #7

Very interesting to see how the noise of jet engines declined significantly. While reading the article I kept thinking, it feels like investing in noise reduction would really pay off, and then a few paragraphs later, there it was. I'm also intrigued by small airports, like the one in Rio, Santos Dumont. The shortest runways in the world. If you could reduce noise and control pollution, it is very nice to have an air…

> Very interesting to see how the noise of jet engines declined significantly.

I know people who used to live under the flightpath of Concorde arrivals/departures.

Lets just say they were very happy when Concorde was retired from service. ;-)

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#72

Post by ofrzeta »

In Munich/Germany plans for a new airport (as a successor to München/Riem) started in the 60s. Construction started in 1980. The airport went into operation in 1992.

Obviously the people in the Erdinger Moos didn't like the decision to build the airport there and many lawsuits ensued that lead to a stop of the construction for three years. In the end and the last lawsuit I think there was no option of another appeal so that was that.

In the end I think it just came down to a question of national interest where you can't have some individuals stop a project like this because an airport is needed in the area and it has to be built somewhere.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#73

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

traceroute66 wrote: post #66
jorisboris wrote: post #24

When building https://randomairport.onrender.com/ I noticed that US and Euro airports always look very different Somehow US airports always seem to be surrounded by densely populated residential areas, even in the direction of the runways, while Euro airports don’t seem to have this problem. And secondly Us airports always seem to take huge plots of land compared to Euro airports. My assumption is that Us cities are…

> US airports always seem to be surrounded by densely populated residential areas The US in general is very densely built up. The distinct lack of green space in US cities is very noticeable to the non-US observer. So I think its more of a case that US airports are surrounded by "less" densely populated areas. > And secondly Us airports always seem to take huge plots of land compared to Euro airports. With the except…

> The distinct lack of green space in US cities is very noticeable to the non-US observer.

Huh? I felt the exact opposite in France. Many French cities have a bunch of nice parks, but everything else is wall-to-wall pavement. I always felt the common refrain about there being dog shit all over Paris is because on many streets there is barely a patch of grass for a dog to even go, so if you have a rude person that doesn't clean up, the shit is going to be where you're much more likely to step on it.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#74

Post by Dalewyn »

perlgeek wrote: post #63
subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

> One of the interesting ideas [...] is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. While reading this article, I thought about something like that too. Build an airport quite a while away from the big city, and provide a high-speed, maybe even maglev train there. Make it free for customers. Also, make it very inconvenient for passengers and staff to approach the airport…

The aforementioned setup nearly always means the closer airport ends up getting upgraded later to meet convenience demands, leaving the newer-but-inconvenient airport out to dry.

See: Haneda (HND) vs. Narita (NRT) in Tokyo, Itami (ITM) vs. Kansai (KIX) in Osaka, etc.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#75

Post by uncertainrhymes »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #12

The new Nancy Bird Walton airport in western Sydney is interesting. The existing airport is very close to the CBD and residential areas, and completely hemmed in by those and the bay it sits next to, so has little room to expand. It's also subject to a strict curfew being so close to residential areas. The new airport is huge, being built at an impressive speed, and is going to be on a new metro line (which strangely…

Several times my flight from LA to Sydney would get a good tailwind, arrive early, then just circle out in the ocean so they could land after 6:30 am and avoid a giant fine.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#76

Post by rockostrich »

Beijinger wrote: post #40
DarkNova6 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, apart from the largest US cities your average european city is larger. The US doesn't even have 10 cities which are above 1 million people.

"The US doesn't even have 10 cities which are above 1 million people. reply" I did not believe this and googled it. It is true. 1 Million would be tiny in China. Province.

Part of it is our definition of cities versus metro areas. Boston's population is technically only 650k but Boston proper doesn't even include Cambridge which is like not including one of the boroughs when talking about NYC's population.

Granted, we still have a lot less metro areas with over 1 million people but there are still ~50 of them.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#77

Post by Solvency »

potsandpans wrote: post #49
Solvency wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What's your point?

The Japanese police/court system is a travesty of corruption and anti-ethics and if you believe that crime reporting statistics you read from an armchair across the globe are all kosher I have a bridge to sell you.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#78

Post by lobochrome »

perlgeek wrote: post #63
subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

> One of the interesting ideas [...] is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. While reading this article, I thought about something like that too. Build an airport quite a while away from the big city, and provide a high-speed, maybe even maglev train there. Make it free for customers. Also, make it very inconvenient for passengers and staff to approach the airport…

I live in Tokyo where we have both Narita, far out but well-ish connected by train with NEX and Haneda, with direct access to the city.

Haneda is vastly more convenient.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#79

Post by Kon-Peki »

As the article points out, expanding the two airports in Chicago are out of the question. And because it is more or less impossible to build a new airport, they are planning to build a "new" airport.

Which means that this tiny little thing [1][2], which handles a dozen or two Cessna flights per day, is intended to "grow" into a 4000 acre major international airport. When it grows to its full footprint, the western edge will be the railroad right of way that carries one of the Chicago commuter rail lines and the Amtrak route that serves the Chicago-UIUC-Memphis-New Orleans line. Plus an existing Interstate with existing interchanges a mile west of that. Very little infrastructure is needed outside of the airport boundaries. Still a lot of opposition though, and years behind schedule.

[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3774859,-87.676198,14.2z?ent...

[2] https://www.bultfield.com

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#80

Post by tallanvor »

subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

It's been 35 years they've discussed that possibility. It's never going to happen. The costs of high speed rail across the mountain are simply too high.
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