Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

serpapi.com

71–80 of 139 posts

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#71

For all the posturing and crypto hate on HN, we're entering a world where it's socially acceptable to use 1000W of computing power and 5 seconds of inference time to parse a tiny HTML fragment which would take microseconds with traditional methods - and people are cheering about it. Time for some self-reflection? That's not very green.

Crypto energy requirements go up as the currency gets more traction.

TFA shows that groq is many times faster than GPT-4. Up to 18x groq claims. Faster means less energy. So I think it's just a matter of time until these things become ridiculously power efficient (eg run on phones in sub second times)

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#72
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I ask an LLM a very complex and specific question 500 times, if it just doesn't know the facts you'll still get the wrong answer 500 times. That's understandable. The real problem is when the AI lies/hallucinates another answer with confidence instead of saying "I don't know".

The problem is asking for facts, LLM are not a database so they know stuff but it is compressed so expect wrong facts, wrong names, dates, wrong anything. We will need an LLM as a front end then it will generate a query to fetch the facts from the internet or a database , then maybe format the facts for your consumption.

That‘s exactly it. It‘s ok for LLMs to not know everything, because they _should_ have a means to look up information. What are some projects where this obvious approach is implemented/tried?

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#73

For all the posturing and crypto hate on HN, we're entering a world where it's socially acceptable to use 1000W of computing power and 5 seconds of inference time to parse a tiny HTML fragment which would take microseconds with traditional methods - and people are cheering about it. Time for some self-reflection? That's not very green.

Crypto energy requirements go up as the currency gets more traction. TFA shows that groq is many times faster than GPT-4. Up to 18x groq claims. Faster means less energy. So I think it's just a matter of time until these things become ridiculously power efficient (eg run on phones in sub second times)

How does faster mean less energy? Thats only true if you’re running faster on the same hardware…

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#74

For all the posturing and crypto hate on HN, we're entering a world where it's socially acceptable to use 1000W of computing power and 5 seconds of inference time to parse a tiny HTML fragment which would take microseconds with traditional methods - and people are cheering about it. Time for some self-reflection? That's not very green.

What a ridiculous complaint. Energy efficiency won't remain static, and even if it were, it's not up to you to decide how to best leverage the available electricity.

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a valid point, but we are still in the early stages of AI/LLMs, so one would expect the speed and efficiency to improve drastically (perhaps accuracy too) over the coming years. At least AI & LLMs have large scale practical applications as opposed to crypto (IMO).

AI is a lot older than blockchain. There were full-fledged neural networks in the 40s and the perceptron was implemented in hardware in the 50s.

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#76

Can somebody explain why this Grok is more performant than Microsoft infrastructure ? LPU better than TPU/GPU ?

LLM performance is about parallelism but also memory bandwidth.

Groq delivers this kind of speed by networking many, many chips together with high bandwidth interconnect. Each chip has only 230mb of SRAM[0].

From the linked reference:

"In the case of the Mixtral model, Groq had to connect 8 racks of 9 servers each with 8 chips per server. That’s a total of 576 chips to build up the inference unit and serve the Mixtral model."

That's eight racks with ~132GB of memory for the model. A single H100 has 80GB and can serve Mixtral without issue (albeit at lower performance).

If you consider the requirements for actual real-world inference serving workloads you need to serve multiple models, multiple versions of models, LoRA adapters, sentence embeddings models (for RAG), etc the economics and physical footprint alone get very challenging.

It's an interesting approach and clearly very, very fast but I'm curious to see how they do in the market:

1) This analysis uses cloud GPU costs for Nvidia pricing. Cloud providers make significant margin on their GPU instances. If you look at qty 1 retail Nvidia DGX, Lambda Hyperplane, etc and compare it to cloud GPU pricing (inference needs to run 24x7) break even on hardware vs cloud is less than seven months depending on what your costs are for hosting the hardware.

2) Nvidia has incredibly high margins.

3) CUDA.

There are some special cases where tokens per second and time to first token are incredibly important (as the article states - real time agents, etc) but overall I think actual real-world production use or deployment of Groq is a pretty challenging proposition.

[0] - https://www.semianalysis.com/p/groq-inference-tokenomics-spe...

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#77
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto energy requirements go up as the currency gets more traction. TFA shows that groq is many times faster than GPT-4. Up to 18x groq claims. Faster means less energy. So I think it's just a matter of time until these things become ridiculously power efficient (eg run on phones in sub second times)

How does faster mean less energy? Thats only true if you’re running faster on the same hardware…

Presumably. Less time the giant chip has to draw power for computation. The point is that everyone's interested in making AI power efficient, while crypto's proof of work is a competition for more power burned hashing and throwing away the result.

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#78
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto energy requirements go up as the currency gets more traction. TFA shows that groq is many times faster than GPT-4. Up to 18x groq claims. Faster means less energy. So I think it's just a matter of time until these things become ridiculously power efficient (eg run on phones in sub second times)

How does faster mean less energy? Thats only true if you’re running faster on the same hardware…

I think they are talking about the case where, hypothetically, there is a 10x increase in speed but only 2x increase in power consumption

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#79
post #29

Can somebody explain why this Grok is more performant than Microsoft infrastructure ? LPU better than TPU/GPU ?

The Mistral Mixed Expert model has way fewer parameters active during inference and Groq has special purpose hardware (and probably less concurrent demand).

> probably less concurrent demand

This is a significant understatement. ChatGPT has an estimated 100m monthly active users.

Groq gets featured on HN from time to time but is otherwise almost completely unknown. According to their stats they have done something like 15m requests total since launch. ChatGPT likely does this in hours (or less).

Re: OpenAI GPT-4 vs. Groq Mistral-8x7B

#80

For all the posturing and crypto hate on HN, we're entering a world where it's socially acceptable to use 1000W of computing power and 5 seconds of inference time to parse a tiny HTML fragment which would take microseconds with traditional methods - and people are cheering about it. Time for some self-reflection? That's not very green.

Any amount of energy spent useful work is vastly superior than whatever “POW” crypto burn does.

>For all the posturing and forest fire hate on HN, it’s now socially acceptable to run a toy steam engine to power a model car? Not very green of you.

Post reply on HN