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Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

cs.stanford.edu

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Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#71

Post by SeanLuke »

svat wrote: post #62
martinclayton wrote: post #55

And the outcome was ... ACM Transactions on Algorithms (TALG)[1][2] [1] https://home.cs.colorado.edu/~hal/s.pdf [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACM_Transactions_on_Algorithms

Yup: > In 2003, the entire editorial board of the Journal of Algorithms resigned to start ACM Transactions on Algorithms with a different, lower-priced, not-for-profit publisher, at the suggestion of Journal of Algorithms founder Donald Knuth. The Journal of Algorithms continued under Elsevier with a new editorial board until October 2009, when it was discontinued. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsevier#Resignation_o…

This sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't. A similar thing happened with Machine Learning (Springer) and for the same reason: the entire editorial board abandoned it and founded the Journal of Machine Learning Research (https://jmlr.org/). But Machine Learning recovered and is still a dominant factor -- and still charging high fees.

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#73

Post by valdiorn »

1980phipsi wrote: post #61
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #12

He is attending the wrong library. Library Genesis is the way, now. And Library Sci-Hub. And I am only half-kidding.

I’m ok with library Sci-Hub, but less so with Library Genesis. Pirating books reduces the incentives for authors to write more books. Pirating academic articles won’t reduce academics’ incentives to write papers.

Good. There no reason to rewrite undergrad calculus books every semester besides money grabbing. The math hasn't changed in 100 years and there shouldn't be an incentive to write an updated version of the book for the 50th time.

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#74

Post by itishappy »

irrational wrote: post #65
juls333 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's honestly quite tragic as we don't evolve anywhere fast enough to not be hit by global depression as the digital solitude clashes with the innate human needs of real socialization.

You aren’t supposed to socialize at brick and mortar libraries.

That's not really true.

> Twenty-five percent who went to the library learned about political or cultural organizations or leisure activities taking place in the local community. More than 20% went to the library with friends or colleagues to work together on a common assignment or a leisure activity. Seventeen percent used the Internet at the library to contact friends via e-mail, to chat, or to participate in discussion groups, etc. Sixteen percent used the library to learn more about local matters, social or political issues, etc., that they are involved in. Fourteen percent participated in organized meetings, such as author's nights, lectures, meetings with politicians, etc. Ten percent used the library as a place to meet family or friends before going together to the movies, into the city, to do shopping, etc. (p.19)

https://www.ala.org/tools/research/librariesmatter/use-publi...

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#75

Post by sarchertech »

globular-toast wrote: post #69
1980phipsi wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m ok with library Sci-Hub, but less so with Library Genesis. Pirating books reduces the incentives for authors to write more books. Pirating academic articles won’t reduce academics’ incentives to write papers.

Does it? It seems complicated. Higher availability of books means more readers for a start. Large numbers of people don't read at all and therefore aren't even in the market for books. Then you have to consider the absurd length of copyright. How does an author receiving money for something they wrote 50 years ago incentivise them to write more? Even worse, how does a dead author's estate receiving money incentivise…

>How does an author receiving money for something they wrote 50 years ago incentivise them to write more?

Receiving money for something you wrote 1 week ago doesn't encourage you to write more. It's the knowledge that you will receive money for next thing you wrote that incentivizes you to write more. And a 50 year payout should obviously provide more incentive than a 6 month payout.

There's going to be a point of diminishing return where adding extra years doesn't provide enough extra incentive to justify the cost, but I haven't seen any convincing evidence that 50 years is over that threshold.

The same holds true for copyright extending past the author's lifetime. Especially if an author is older, the knowledge that their children will benefit is certainly an incentive.

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#76

Post by beej71 »

sarchertech wrote: post #75
globular-toast wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? It seems complicated. Higher availability of books means more readers for a start. Large numbers of people don't read at all and therefore aren't even in the market for books. Then you have to consider the absurd length of copyright. How does an author receiving money for something they wrote 50 years ago incentivise them to write more? Even worse, how does a dead author's estate receiving money incentivise…

>How does an author receiving money for something they wrote 50 years ago incentivise them to write more? Receiving money for something you wrote 1 week ago doesn't encourage you to write more. It's the knowledge that you will receive money for next thing you wrote that incentivizes you to write more. And a 50 year payout should obviously provide more incentive than a 6 month payout. There's going to be a point of di…

I don't get this argument for writing or anything else. I do things now for which I don't expect to get paid for the next 50 years. What's my incentive?

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#77

Post by philomath_mn »

jwilk wrote: post #51
soegaard wrote: post #39

The story goes that one of Niels Bohr's friends visited him and found him deeply engrossed in writing an application to a fund. Surprised, the friend asked why it took so long for such a prominent scientist as Bohr to write a simple application. Bohr replied, "I'm trying to make it short, but I haven't had time yet."

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/28/shorter-letter/

This is good research but terrible writing. Why are the instances so out of order? I understand starting with the first English occurrence, but why not go from there to the oldest known occurrence in any language?

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#78

Post by justin66 »

thrtythreeforty wrote: post #16
nirse wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you should take into account that you are not (one of) the most preeminent computer scientists in the world, right?

If Don Knuth sent me a 14-page letter, you bet I'm gonna read it. I might frame it.

If a rando from hn sent me a 14-page letter, I'd probably read it. I might give it to the police afterwards.

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#79

Post by bigbillheck »

nwiswell wrote: post #23
debatem1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you listen longer when your best dairy cow moos?

If my best dairy cow was Don Knuth, my bones would be NP-Hard.

Please don't post kink fantasies on the hacker news forums.

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#80

Post by tombert »

WillAdams wrote: post #57
thrtythreeforty wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Don Knuth sent me a 14-page letter, you bet I'm gonna read it. I might frame it.

I was fortunate enough to get one of the last physical reward checks which was accompanied by a printout of my e-mail, written on in pencil. Fortunately, it survived a house flood which destroyed the book it was in, so now the envelope it's in is prominently displayed on a rack in my living room and would be one of the things I'd grab in the event of a fire. Every so often, when a co-worker knows who Knuth is I bring…

Extremely envious of this! I don't own a copy of Art of Computer Programming, so I did spend a not-insignificant amount of reading through some of Knuth's other writings trying to find mistakes that no one else has found, and I came up empty handed. There might be mistakes ripe for the picking in there, but I'm afraid I'm not quite smart enough to find them.

Still, a guy can dream. If I ever pick up Art of Computer Programming I might give it a go again.

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