macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes • Hacker News Board

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#71

Post by hbbio » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 1:42 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #62

riscy wrote: post #47

> macOS on Apple silicon processors (M1, M2, and M3) includes a feature which controls how and when dynamically generated code can be either produced (written) or executed on a per-thread basis. […] With macOS 14.4, when a thread is operating in the write mode, if a memory access to a protected memory region is attempted, macOS will send the signal SIGKILL instead. This isn’t just any old thread triggering SIGKILL, i…

So MacOS is trying to be smart, changes their API, and now we're blaming the JVM for doing something we don't understand? At least they could have provided a path back to the old behavior.

Sorry, that's not how security works.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#72

Post by threeseed » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 1:52 AM UTC

secondcoming wrote: post #29

xyst wrote: post #22

Apple and macOS is slowly becoming another Windows in terms of stability. There was a HN post about a hashicorp founder using Linux within a vm on their mbp. Might adopt that same approach, if I can find the og post.

When's the last time you had a BSOD on Windows? I honestly can't recall.

Depends on what you're doing.

It happens fairly often for me with more exotic hardware e.g. Infiniband or when I push the hardware too hard i.e. parallel Rust builds.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#73

Post by threeseed » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 1:53 AM UTC

latchkey wrote: post #14

npalli wrote: post #2

An issue introduced by macOS 14.4, which causes Java process to terminate unexpectedly, is affecting all Java versions from Java 8 to the early access builds of JDK 22 If this affects so many versions of Java and nobody notices, is anyone even using Java on macOS?

> is anyone even using Java on macOS? IntelliJ IDEA, the product itself, is JVM based.

Actually everything from Jetbrains does.

So Pycharm, Rustrover etc.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#74

Post by latchkey » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 1:59 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #73

latchkey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is anyone even using Java on macOS? IntelliJ IDEA, the product itself, is JVM based.

Actually everything from Jetbrains does. So Pycharm, Rustrover etc.

All of those are effectively language specific plugins of the base IDE platform, which is why I didn't list them individually.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#75

Post by ls612 » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 2:06 AM UTC

xcv123 wrote: post #65

8crazyideas wrote: post #56

I just bought a MacBook Pro with the M3 Max chip and installed MATLAB R2023b. Sonoma 14.3 is in place. As a requirement, I had to also install Corretto 8. MathWorks only supports the Java 8 JRE included with Amazon Corretto 8. I am already having several problems in MATLAB with his new setup. Can I assume that updating to Sonoma 14.4 might very well cause even more problems? I really don't understand any of this.

".. is affecting all Java versions from Java 8 to the early access builds of JDK 22. There is no workaround available .." Do not update until Apple fixes the issue.

Is it Apple or Oracle who should rightly be fixing this issue?

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#76

Post by e40 » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 2:06 AM UTC

xcv123 wrote: post #65

8crazyideas wrote: post #56

I just bought a MacBook Pro with the M3 Max chip and installed MATLAB R2023b. Sonoma 14.3 is in place. As a requirement, I had to also install Corretto 8. MathWorks only supports the Java 8 JRE included with Amazon Corretto 8. I am already having several problems in MATLAB with his new setup. Can I assume that updating to Sonoma 14.4 might very well cause even more problems? I really don't understand any of this.

".. is affecting all Java versions from Java 8 to the early access builds of JDK 22. There is no workaround available .." Do not update until Apple fixes the issue.

Isn’t this something Oracle will be fixing? Seems like it from other comments here.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#77

Post by xcv123 » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 2:22 AM UTC

ls612 wrote: post #75

xcv123 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

".. is affecting all Java versions from Java 8 to the early access builds of JDK 22. There is no workaround available .." Do not update until Apple fixes the issue.

Is it Apple or Oracle who should rightly be fixing this issue?

It's a bug in macOS and it breaks POSIX compliance. Oracle can develop a workaround but Apple should fix it in their next update.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#78

Post by DuskHorizon » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 2:25 AM UTC

xcv123 wrote: post #67

DuskHorizon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, why not? macOS is Apple’s IP and they have all rights to do with it as they want. Buy the way, Chrome/Node.js JavaScript engine uses JIT compilation too. Are they affected?

No. MacOS is UNIX Certified. This is a bug in MacOS. Breaks POSIX compliance.

macOS breaks POSIX compliance at many levels. It’s Unix only on paper, lol.

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#79

Post by tiffanyh » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 2:26 AM UTC

macOS dark ages.

I wonder if we’re about to enter 4-5 years of macOS “dark ages”, due to Apple grappling with EU/DMA.

Much like Microsoft in early 2000s, between IE/lawsuit and grappling with internet security/viruses. Windows XP, launched in 2001, was considered by most a great OS, didn’t have another good OS successor until 8-years later (Windows 7).

Re: macOS 14.4 causes JVM crashes

#80

Post by kmiller68 » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 2:26 AM UTC

xcv123 wrote: post #69

jandrewrogers wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not obvious to me that this breaks POSIX compatibility. The kernel may choose to signal a process with SIGSEGV on a memory protection violation but I can't find anything that suggests this is required . Last I checked, macOS formally maintains POSIX certification. Linux is not POSIX compliant, so I wouldn't use Linux as the measure of what is correct behavior under POSIX.

POSIX.1-2017 specification. Section titled "Memory Protection" https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/V...

Maybe I'm being pedantic but as far as I can tell that document doesn't say when a SIGKILL can or can't be issued. So it seems like it would be valid to issue a SIGKILL at any time the kernel wants. Obviously, that's probably not users/programmers want but it seems to technically meet the specification you list.