Fractional scales, fonts and hinting
71–80 of 117 posts
Re: Fractional scales, fonts and hinting
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
against GTK? As in its philosophy? usage?
He means utilizing GTK. In sweden its common to say "Utveckla mot xxx" Develop against, when talking about using a framework or library. I bet they say the same thing i Other germanic languages.
Ich habe die Lösung gegen das GTK-framework entwickelt.
It's ambiguous btw.
Re: Fractional scales, fonts and hinting
#73I'm curious - when you were doing research into the mechanics of hinting options, did you stumble onto any relevant discussion around allowing custom pixel geometries to be defined, to enable hinting on modern OLED / WRBG displays? There's a good thread on the topic here[0], with some people referring to it as 'ClearType 2' on the MS side [1]. On the oss side I know FreeType theoretically supports this[2], but I can'…
AIUI the trend has been towards GUI frameworks dropping support for subpixel AA altogether, since that simplifies so many things[1], so I'm not holding my breath for the current limitations around unusual subpixel layouts being fully resolved on any platform. Apple made the switch to greyscale-only AA years ago, Microsoft is mid-transition with their newer GUI toolkits ignoring the system Cleartype setting and always…
You'd want to render to that grid; then apply bayering fused with color mapping. No need to transmit 3x the data over the cable. And with a hint of sufficient software support (I think the high DPI stuff might (almost?) suffice already!), I'd actually prefer such a screen over a traditional vertical bars of RGB (or BGR, as I'm currently suffering; sadly the thermal design of the screen won't allow me to safely just rotate it to"wrong" landscape) LCD monitor... provided both have the same number of subpixels.
Probably bonus for a 4th deep cyan pixel color in place of a duplicate green to get a wider gamut. Or something similar in spirit.
A device like this would allow hobby developers to bring the software/driver support up to "daily driver, no regrets" levels.
Similarly I still wonder why no OLED seems to have shipped a "camera-based motion/pan/defocus self-calibrated" burn-in scan& compensate function where you just every ~100 hours move a cheap camera on front of the screen following the on-screen movement directions, to mechanically create an opportunity for the cheap sensor to be calibrated, and then use this freshly calibrated brightness sensor to map the OLED panel and make up for that the exact burn-in is very hard to simulate, but is required precisely to compensate/pre-distort without leaving visible residuals from incomplete/imperfect cancellation between the pre-distortion and the burned-in pattern.
Re: Fractional scales, fonts and hinting
#74And still no proper gamma correction.. wich makes the whole thing useless, specially on low-DPI screens Nobody does it properly on linux, despite freetype's recommendations.. a shame.. https://freetype.org/freetype2/docs/hinting/text-rendering-g... It's even worse for Light text on Dark backgrounds.. text becomes hard to read.. GTK is not alone Chromium/Electron tries but is wrong 1.2 instead of 1.8, and doesn't do g…
Thanks for the tip, though.
Re: Fractional scales, fonts and hinting
#75Haiku OS in my opinion solves this better by basing everything on default font size (in pixels). Eg it defaults to 12px, I used 20px for a 3840x2160 monitor. Some GUI widgets scale based on this. All text (when using be_default_font) scale based on this. Spacing / layout depends on this. The key difference (compared to a global x1.5 scaling factor) is that developers of each app decide how to use this information, so…
This is similar to how Win32/GDI layout guidelines (pre-win 10) worked. Windows says reference font dpi is 72 and reference sizes for buttons, list, labels, etc is specified at 96 dpi, then you're supposed to use actual dpi/ref_dpi and scale things according to that. Then you set DPI scaling per monitor v2 in manifest.xml and catch WM_DPICHANGED message and recompute scale factors and presto, perfect dpi scaling acro…
https://building.enlyze.com/posts/targeting-25-years-of-wind...
Target from NT4 (up to Windows 11, I suppose) with LLVM and Visual Studio.
Re: Fractional scales, fonts and hinting
#76And still no proper gamma correction.. wich makes the whole thing useless, specially on low-DPI screens Nobody does it properly on linux, despite freetype's recommendations.. a shame.. https://freetype.org/freetype2/docs/hinting/text-rendering-g... It's even worse for Light text on Dark backgrounds.. text becomes hard to read.. GTK is not alone Chromium/Electron tries but is wrong 1.2 instead of 1.8, and doesn't do g…
Wow, I just tried those environment variables, and it makes a remarkable difference for the smoothness and fullness for every font. I'll probably be leaving this setting on until something breaks when it gets fixed, and I inevitably spend too much time trying to figure out why it's broken after forgetting what I changed. Thanks for the tip, though.
I don't know what my life would like without such decisions...
Re: Fractional scales, fonts and hinting
#77When I boot into windows, the fonts especially in some applications look horrible and blurry because of my high DPI monitor. Windows has like 10 settings you can try to tweak high dpi fonts and man none of them look good. I think my Linux boot on the same machine has much better font smoothness and of course the MacBook is perfect.
Somehow most windows systems I see on people’s desks now look blurry as shit. It didn’t use to be this way.
I really don’t understand why high dpi monitors cause (rather than solve) this problem and I suspect windows has some legacy application considerations to trade off against but man - windows used to be the place you’d go to give your eyes a break after Linux and now it’s worse!
I realize I am ranting against windows here which is the most cliched thing ever but really come on it’s like right in your face!
Re: Fractional scales, fonts and hinting
#78Haiku OS in my opinion solves this better by basing everything on default font size (in pixels). Eg it defaults to 12px, I used 20px for a 3840x2160 monitor. Some GUI widgets scale based on this. All text (when using be_default_font) scale based on this. Spacing / layout depends on this. The key difference (compared to a global x1.5 scaling factor) is that developers of each app decide how to use this information, so…
Say your UI had a one "pixel" wide vertical line. At some point, resolution becomes high enough that you need to draw it two device pixels wide. What do you do at scales in-between? Do apps start drawing their lines wider if the default font size goes up? When? Is it consistent system wide?
further, the “pixel” unit widely used today is quite far removed from physical pixels on consumer devices and is more similar to an abstracted “point” unit - for example, apple alone supports devices at 1x, 2x, and 3x resolutions (or pixel densities)
Re: Fractional scales, fonts and hinting
#79I don’t have anything expert to add here except this is somehow a shockingly difficult problem. When I boot into windows, the fonts especially in some applications look horrible and blurry because of my high DPI monitor. Windows has like 10 settings you can try to tweak high dpi fonts and man none of them look good. I think my Linux boot on the same machine has much better font smoothness and of course the MacBook is…
I'm pretty sure they used to be bit mapped, or had excellent hinting. Now that high dpi is common, maybe they figured that wasn't needed anymore. And indeed, on my 24", 4k monitor at "200%", windows is pretty sharp if I start it that way. If I change it while running, it becomes a shit-show. But when running at 100% on a FHD 14" laptop, sharpness is clearly lacking.
Regarding the Linux situation, yes, it's subjectively better on that same laptop. But it depends a lot on the fonts used. Some are a blurry / rainbowy mess. However, on Linux, I run everything at 100% and just zoom as needed if the text is too small (say on the above 24" screen).