Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana • Hacker News Board

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#71

Post by willis936 » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 1:01 AM UTC

jtriangle wrote: post #9

majesticmerc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: I've known the law of "pea sized amount" for thermal paste for 20 years or so. Does it still hold true for modern (and larger) CPU dies? I haven't upgraded in a long time so genuinely don't know, but also wouldn't want to use outdated knowledge!

You want to use as little paste as possible while fully covering the heat spreader. Most modern coolers will provide sufficient pressure to spread a pea sized amount of thermal paste to cover the whole cooler. There are also thermal pads, both reusable and single use, that perfom well and don't require any guesswork. If you want to paste, noctua has the best paste in terms of thermal resistance, but mx4 or mx5 both p…

>You want to use as little paste as possible while fully covering the heat spreader.

The data disagrees. Too much paste is fine; too little is not.

https://youtu.be/EUWVVTY63hc

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#72

Post by djbusby » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 1:18 AM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #70

jerrygenser wrote: post #7

Another thing I've had great success with on my AMD 7700X is to use AMD Ryzen Master to reduce the TDP. The chip comes to consumers overclocked by default with a TDP of 105W. I suspect this is the case so that it can beat Intel on benchmarks on "default" settings. You can set it to "eco mode" and have it run at 65W or 45W TDP. Under load, this only results in like a 5% reduction in performance for a dramatic reductio…

I’ve tried Eco mode on AMD parts before. The performance drop was a lot more than 5% for heavily multithreaded workloads (compiling), but I could see it being negligible for certain single threaded workloads.

I have AMD and Gentoo. For daily use an eco mode is OK. But at the weekend when I need to emerge, have to use all the power.

But also, now, the deps for $WORK are in pre-buolt docker so I'm not rebuilding nodejs every other weekend.

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#73

Post by RachelF » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 1:48 AM UTC

jerrygenser wrote: post #7

Another thing I've had great success with on my AMD 7700X is to use AMD Ryzen Master to reduce the TDP. The chip comes to consumers overclocked by default with a TDP of 105W. I suspect this is the case so that it can beat Intel on benchmarks on "default" settings. You can set it to "eco mode" and have it run at 65W or 45W TDP. Under load, this only results in like a 5% reduction in performance for a dramatic reductio…

The main problem with the AMD 5000 series is their high idle (non-core) power draw of around 20 to 30W.

AMD have reduced this in their 7000 series.

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#74

Post by leetcrew » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 2:43 AM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #69

dvdkon wrote: post #63

It's surprising that there are no PC fan controllers that would use some variant of PID control with a temperature target. Traditional fan curves are simple, but the result isn't very intuitive. And many desktop motherboards manage to screw up even the basic fan curve, offering users control of only two points within strict bounds, no piecewise linear curves or hysteresis settings. I started a fan controller project…

PID control isn’t an easy solution in PC cooling. CPU temperatures can swing from 40C to 90C and back in a matter of seconds as loads come and go. Modern fan control algorithms have delays and smoothing for this reason. If you had a steady state load so stable that you could tune around it, setting a fan curve is rather easy and PID is overkill. For normal use where you’re going between idle with the occasional spike…

the CPU temp can do that, but your typical desktop air tower has a lot of thermal capacity. if it took 5 seconds for the fan to react, that wouldn't be a big issue.

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#75

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 2:47 AM UTC

giobox wrote: post #15

haunter wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s open source

No it isn't. I use and like the app also, but the GitHub repo link on their page takes you to a separate release artifact management repo, not the source code itself. > https://getfancontrol.com/ Their linked GitHub repo, which only has a compiled zip uploaded for release artifact creation, not the code : > https://github.com/Rem0o/FanControl.Releases From the repo: "Sources for this software are closed." I wonder wh…

The author probably used some non open-source bits when building the thing.

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#76

Post by wtallis » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 2:51 AM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #74

Aurornis wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PID control isn’t an easy solution in PC cooling. CPU temperatures can swing from 40C to 90C and back in a matter of seconds as loads come and go. Modern fan control algorithms have delays and smoothing for this reason. If you had a steady state load so stable that you could tune around it, setting a fan curve is rather easy and PID is overkill. For normal use where you’re going between idle with the occasional spike…

the CPU temp can do that, but your typical desktop air tower has a lot of thermal capacity. if it took 5 seconds for the fan to react, that wouldn't be a big issue.

Desktop case fans also have a fair bit of inertia. They take at least a second or two to ramp up to full speed, and longer to coast back down to their minimum speed.

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#77

Post by Dalewyn » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 3:03 AM UTC

RachelF wrote: post #73

jerrygenser wrote: post #7

Another thing I've had great success with on my AMD 7700X is to use AMD Ryzen Master to reduce the TDP. The chip comes to consumers overclocked by default with a TDP of 105W. I suspect this is the case so that it can beat Intel on benchmarks on "default" settings. You can set it to "eco mode" and have it run at 65W or 45W TDP. Under load, this only results in like a 5% reduction in performance for a dramatic reductio…

The main problem with the AMD 5000 series is their high idle (non-core) power draw of around 20 to 30W. AMD have reduced this in their 7000 series.

Got any specific numbers?

On the Intel side of things, I've seen my 14700K idle at around 5W (which shoots up to 300W under load, I find it greatly amusing) and my 12700H at 0.5W or less.

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#78

Post by lreeves » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 3:15 AM UTC

What an awesome post! I recently built a new PC based on workstation parts that frustratingly didn't expose the actual CPU temperature except in the IPMI interface; I was starting to hack something together with Netdata and ipmitool but then I saw this post and in a couple hours had a Grafana ingesting the ipmitool sensor output every 10 seconds or so. Thanks!

https://i.imgur.com/KDeHgFY.png

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#79

Post by fbdab103 » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 3:19 AM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #70

jerrygenser wrote: post #7

Another thing I've had great success with on my AMD 7700X is to use AMD Ryzen Master to reduce the TDP. The chip comes to consumers overclocked by default with a TDP of 105W. I suspect this is the case so that it can beat Intel on benchmarks on "default" settings. You can set it to "eco mode" and have it run at 65W or 45W TDP. Under load, this only results in like a 5% reduction in performance for a dramatic reductio…

I’ve tried Eco mode on AMD parts before. The performance drop was a lot more than 5% for heavily multithreaded workloads (compiling), but I could see it being negligible for certain single threaded workloads.

Interesting we have different reports. My experience was far more in line with parent's in that enabling ECO mode had In fact, chips have gotten so fast these days, I am seriously considering running my desktop on a laptop-class CPU. Should be able to run it near silently on air cooling alone with low power consumption.

Re: Better PC cooling with Python and Grafana

#80

Post by duped » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 3:44 AM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #69

dvdkon wrote: post #63

It's surprising that there are no PC fan controllers that would use some variant of PID control with a temperature target. Traditional fan curves are simple, but the result isn't very intuitive. And many desktop motherboards manage to screw up even the basic fan curve, offering users control of only two points within strict bounds, no piecewise linear curves or hysteresis settings. I started a fan controller project…

PID control isn’t an easy solution in PC cooling. CPU temperatures can swing from 40C to 90C and back in a matter of seconds as loads come and go. Modern fan control algorithms have delays and smoothing for this reason. If you had a steady state load so stable that you could tune around it, setting a fan curve is rather easy and PID is overkill. For normal use where you’re going between idle with the occasional spike…

I would be surprised that a PID controller can't adjust the control signal of the fan on the order of milliseconds/hundreds of microseconds. The mass of the fan would be the bigger issue.

Something that would help is multiple fans being adjusted by the same PID controller. It's not a problem if they're spinning too fast, but if you need more cooling the controller needs to increase air flow at the fastest rate which means turning up multiple fans.