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Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

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Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#71

Post by maaaaattttt »

Maybe too tangential, but here is my question anyways:

Is there a project that tries to build (using Raspberry Pis for example, or an app on a smartphone) a second global network of privately run nodes. The most similar project I can think of was the Fon project [1] where you would purchase a Fon box and share internet access with all other Fon users. Sort of an organised wifi hotspot club.

But, what I'm thinking about is more something that would just need electricity (vs electricity + ISP) and be running more like a big LAN. Everything would be P2P on it, from DNS to hosting. I think some federated systems could work almost just the same on it but possibilities (and speed) would be very limited.

With all the conflicts and natural disasters happening world wide I've been thinking more and more about ways to still be connected to others through something that would be more P2P even hardware wise.

I know internet (arpanet) started by trying to be just what I describe, but we all know now that it's not how it works anymore with some big centralisation points along the stack.

Is what I'm describing the "infamous" Web3? The few hazy definitions I read don't make it sound like it.

Anyways, if anybody knows any project that ressembles my poor explanation, I'm all ears as I'd like to get on board an promote it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fon_Wireless

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#72

Post by bee_rider »

ynniv wrote: post #47
stevenAthompson wrote: post #40

What did they hope to accomplish by making the world slightly worse?

Who is "they"? Cite your sources and show your work.

Do you have an objection to the theory proposed in the article we’re already discussing?

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#73

Post by AnimalMuppet »

csomar wrote: post #61
elzbardico wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said Yemen? The prize for the neocons is Iran.

They need less reasons for Iran; they already have a truck load of casus belli. The reason they want to avoid a larger conflict with Iran is because a land mission is impossible. They already got kicked out of Afghanistan/Iraq by Iranian proxies.

The Taliban are not Iranian proxies, as far as I can tell. If you claim they are, I'd like to see some sources.

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#74

Post by AnimalMuppet »

vidarh wrote: post #42
thinkingemote wrote: post #35

In neal stephensons 1996 classic wired article Mother Earth Mother Board theres a bit in there about why cables are not attacked. "There is also the obvious threat of sabotage by a hostile government, but, surprisingly, this almost never happens. When cypherpunk Doug Barnes was researching his Caribbean project, he spent some time looking into this, because it was exactly the kind of threat he was worried about in th…

There are a couple of differences: 1. the sheer number of cables today makes an individual - or even several - cuts far less dramatic. 2. there's likely still a perceived difference between a nation-state being seen to openly take responsibility for cutting cables, and terrorist groups doing so. It's still an interesting chang (and everyone should read Mother Earth Mother Board), and you're probably still right it wi…

Re 2: The Houthis hold enough territory to be considered a nation-state (or at least a pseudo-nation-state) rather than just a terrorist group.

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#75

Post by zmgsabst »

maaaaattttt wrote: post #71

Maybe too tangential, but here is my question anyways: Is there a project that tries to build (using Raspberry Pis for example, or an app on a smartphone) a second global network of privately run nodes. The most similar project I can think of was the Fon project [1] where you would purchase a Fon box and share internet access with all other Fon users. Sort of an organised wifi hotspot club. But, what I'm thinking abo…

I think you’re looking for community mesh networks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking

People have tried, but they’re hard — and TLAs tend to show up. (At least from stories I heard; before my time.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Wireless

But they’re doing a crypto one too — maybe that’ll work better.

https://www.helium.com/

There’s also a HAM radio option.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#76

Post by drsim »

alisonatwork wrote: post #66
vidarh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple of differences: 1. the sheer number of cables today makes an individual - or even several - cuts far less dramatic. 2. there's likely still a perceived difference between a nation-state being seen to openly take responsibility for cutting cables, and terrorist groups doing so. It's still an interesting chang (and everyone should read Mother Earth Mother Board), and you're probably still right it wi…

It already happens a lot. The cables around Matsu keep getting mysteriously cut definitely not by China[0], and there's nothing anybody can really do due to plausible deniability. I think the bombing of the Nord Stream pipeline has shown that even when a blatant act of sabotage occurs under the sea, as long as nobody claims responsibility, the debate will rage on for years about who it might have been. I'm not sure i…

There is rarely an incentive to claim responsibility. And in the case of finding a smoking gun held by some national, the geopolitical consequences of pointing a finger are consequential. Nations must decide if those consequences are in their favor. For Nord Stream, pointing their finger either at Russia or Ukraine would result in consequences that are not in Nato's favor.

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#78

Post by pjc50 »

thinkingemote wrote: post #35

In neal stephensons 1996 classic wired article Mother Earth Mother Board theres a bit in there about why cables are not attacked. "There is also the obvious threat of sabotage by a hostile government, but, surprisingly, this almost never happens. When cypherpunk Doug Barnes was researching his Caribbean project, he spent some time looking into this, because it was exactly the kind of threat he was worried about in th…

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/content/purposes-and-prin... : "prohibits the threat or use of force and calls on all Members to respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of other States".

The post-WW2 peace structure was built around a prohibition on aggressive war and sub-war violations of the integrity of other states. This hasn't always held, and once we get into a situation where there are state-power-but-not-a-state actors involved (who are by definition not part of the UN!) things get messy.

I do think the US breach of this principle by invading Iraq did a colossal amount of damage to this principle, both morally and practically in that the collapse of the (repressive) Iraqi state caused the rise of non-state groups which destabilized Syria. The collapse of Yemen has been going on for a while with very little caring from outside, and now it's a venue for the proxy war between Iran and everyone else in the area (mostly Israel, but also Saudi).

It's also an easy mistake to blame everything on the US and Israel; there are a lot of different groups looking to seize various sorts of power in various places at gunpoint, with varying outside backers with varying levels of control.

There was even at one point indirect cooperation between the US and Iran to defeat the only group that was an even worse influence on the stability of the region than either of them: ISIS. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/03/us-iran-forced...

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#79

Post by hnbad »

ptero wrote: post #15
10u152 wrote: post #2

I don’t know enough to speak to the geopolitical issues, but from a technical aspect, repair of this won’t be cheap or fast.

Why? An honest question, I thought undersea cable repair is a common, straightforward procedure. In this case the repair ship might need some air defense, but US or UK could easily provide that.

Based on news coverage I've read:

- it's a specialized business requiring specialized ships which are often booked out a long time in advance

- the damage is in a war zone

Would you be willing to do your job in a war zone? Would your boss be okay with sending you there? With sending very specialized and expensive equipment there with you?

Also what do you think would be sufficient to provide peace time equivalent safety guarantees for the ship and crew? Military equipment and crew ain't cheap either.

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#80

Post by pjc50 »

maaaaattttt wrote: post #71

Maybe too tangential, but here is my question anyways: Is there a project that tries to build (using Raspberry Pis for example, or an app on a smartphone) a second global network of privately run nodes. The most similar project I can think of was the Fon project [1] where you would purchase a Fon box and share internet access with all other Fon users. Sort of an organised wifi hotspot club. But, what I'm thinking abo…

Nodes are useless without links. And links over distance are harder than people think.
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