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Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

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Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#71

Post by Tiktaalik »

troyvit wrote: post #60
Havoc wrote: post #45

> got a totally bonkers result they couldn’t anticipate. I fundamentally disagree with this statement and frankly the entire line of reasoning This isn’t some unforeseeable 3rd order side effect coming out of a black box from left field. You’re always injecting an instruction to put in diverse people so now it’s always doing just that. Entirely predictable. This is like adding a system prompt saying always put tamago…

I agree with you that it's entirely predictable. Why was it not predicted by a company that has achieved hegemony over so many aspects of our online lives and therefore must be pretty good at stuff? Other people offer: * google drove their head up their own ass * actually they expected this behavior, but didn't think there would be backlash * google didn't scope for the normal consumer but rather for their managerial…

Also probably

* everyone is in such a rush to get to market that they didn't test it well.

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#72

Post by smoothjazz »

claytongulick wrote: post #70
smoothjazz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone disagree with “wokeness”? I think that says a lot. Are the ultra-rich who complain about the “woke mind virus” hurt in any way by diversity? No, they are not.

A fun game is to templatize that statement and try swapping it out with other beliefs: Why would anyone disagree with . I think that says a lot. Are the who complain about the hurt in any way by ? No, they are not. Why would anyone disagree with environmental activism . I think that says a lot. Are the corporate polluters who complain about the tree huggers hurt in any way by clean water ? No, they are not. Why would…

Who are "my ideological targets"?

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#73

Post by almatabata »

smoothjazz wrote: post #56
claytongulick wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had a political ideology that you disagreed with imposed on you in nearly every facet of your life - entertainment, work, school - what would your reaction be? Would you put any effort into voicing your disagreement?

Why would anyone disagree with “wokeness”? I think that says a lot. Are the ultra-rich who complain about the “woke mind virus” hurt in any way by diversity? No, they are not.

Wokeness or being woke originally simply meant "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination". Very few people disagree with this because being alert does not say anything about how much prejudice exists. Two people can considers themselves woke by that definition and have radical different perceptions of prejudice.

The disagreement always comes when it comes to actually implementing solutions to the racial prejudice and discrimination.

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#74

Post by lostmsu »

4bpp wrote: post #20
monsecchris wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The woke results were by design. This was not a mistake or unpredictable.

Are you contending that the black Wehrmacht soldiers, or black British kings eating watermelon, were anticipated or desired by Google staff? Even if you model them as the most extreme conceivable woke boogeymen, surely they wouldn't want a scenario where the diversity programming produced a result that they would consider more insulting to minorities than the one that would have been produced without it.

"By design" is not the same as "what we wanted".

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#75

Post by lostmsu »

ericzawo wrote: post #52

I cannot believe how many extremely smart and capable people spend a large portion of their day opining about "woke."

Nobody would have cared if it stayed personal opinion. https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/10k31w3/d_...

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#77

Post by Tiktaalik »

tanseydavid wrote: post #58
smoothjazz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone disagree with “wokeness”? I think that says a lot. Are the ultra-rich who complain about the “woke mind virus” hurt in any way by diversity? No, they are not.

>> Why would anyone disagree with “wokeness”? Do you really expect universal understanding and agreement with a word/term that you felt necessary to put into air-quotes? How about a proper definition to start with? Simply so that one can be clear on what they are agreeing or disagreeing with.

People who use the word woke won't even define it themselves because doing so makes them look clearly like a bigot.

That's why it's all nods and winks.

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#78

Post by candiodari »

Fricken wrote: post #48
candiodari wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I've yet to see a single youtube evaluation video of Gemini that didn't at some point point out that Gemini is hallucinating or trying to convince the user of something that's total bullshit. It's pretty clever about it. Doing this like. "Smart, clear, eloquent fact A, phrased longer than necessary. Bullshit (short sentence). Smart, clear, eloquent fact B, phrased longer than necessary". But the bullshit is a…

An image generator is supposed to hallucinate. That's the whole point. If you want a non-hallucinogenic image, then use Google image search. It's just so ass-backwards to release a creative tool and then attempt to constrain it to a pre-determined set of imagery. Like, imagine an AI that can produce images of any crazy thing you can think of? Wouldn't that be amazing? Billions have been invested in this technology, a…

> Billions have been invested in this technology, and it sort of works!

And yet all reviews are like this, or (often) much worse: https://www.androidpolice.com/google-gemini-further-impressi...

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#79

Post by Mountain_Skies »

smoothjazz wrote: post #65
bodiekane wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone disagree with fundamentalist Christianity? Why would anyone disagree with Wahhabist Islam? Why would anyone disagree with Maoism? People have different opinions on politics, religion, society. The more extremist a certain group/movement/ideology is the more concerned about it people will become.

"Wokeness" as defined by the people who use it is not a religion (and it's not extreme). It's just pejorative word for diversity used by people who believe in white supremacy.

Just like Social Justice Warrior (SJW) before it, woke is a term that those it applies to gave themselves as a positive descriptor. It only took on a negative connotation with the general population when the people applying that descriptor to themselves kept acting in abhorrent ways. It wasn't "white supremacy", it was the behavior of the SJWs and now "woke" that created the negativity. And whatever term they come up with next will likewise quickly become tainted with negativity that reflects the activities of those who wear that label. Not sure what you think you gain by trying to gaslight people who have for years seen both of these labels self-applied by those who later have tried running away from them once their behaviors caught up with them.

Re: Yishan Wong: "Google's Gemini issue is not about woke/DEI"

#80

Post by emptysongglass »

smoothjazz wrote: post #65
bodiekane wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone disagree with fundamentalist Christianity? Why would anyone disagree with Wahhabist Islam? Why would anyone disagree with Maoism? People have different opinions on politics, religion, society. The more extremist a certain group/movement/ideology is the more concerned about it people will become.

"Wokeness" as defined by the people who use it is not a religion (and it's not extreme). It's just pejorative word for diversity used by people who believe in white supremacy.

That's a blanket statement you're making coming from your own biases that people who don't agree with woke ideology must be white supremacists.
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