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Neural Network Diffusion

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Re: Neural Network Diffusion

#71
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the big bet for AI-assisted AI-development long term is synthetic data. A big part of the reason so much money and resources is going into synthetic data right now is not just out of economic necessity, but because there have been extremely encouraging results with synthetic data (e.g. 'Textbooks Are All You Need', AlphaZero).

I wouldn't count aplha zero since it's reinforcement learning. That technique you can generate high quality data all the time since the rules are fixed. Not everything can be trained using that way

The chess knowledge and skills of LLMs comes from them ingesting a sufficient number of chess games in text format (the amount will be proportional to both other data you have and the compute you have), same with the ability of LLMs to play other games or solve other fixed rule/perfect knowledge puzzles. AlphaZero and its cousins showed that you can generate an effectively infinite quantity of extremely high-quality data in those domains. There is a possibility that the benefit to an LLM's general intelligence from giving it e.g. one billion ~4600 ELO level games is only in improving its ability to play chess. Given the results many studies have reported in cross-learning with LLMs, I doubt that though. The potential is that generating a lot of extremely high level logic and puzzle solving and providing it as extremely high quality synthetic data to an LLM can improve its general reasoning and logic capabilities - that would be huge, and is one of the promises of synthetic data.

Re: Neural Network Diffusion

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is an example of an existing technique called hypernetworks. It's not "recursive self improvement", which is just a belief that magic is real and you can wish an AI into existence. In particular, this one needs too much training data, and you can't define "improvement" without knowing what to improve to.

> which is just a belief that magic is real Is there a law of thermodynamics which prevents AI from writing code which would train a better AI? Never learned that one in school. And FYI here's OpenAI plan to align superintelligence: "Our goal is to build a roughly human-level automated alignment researcher. We can then use vast amounts of compute to scale our efforts, and iteratively align superintelligence." I guess…

> I guess people working there believe in magic.

I've been thinking about this recently. Personally, I've yet to see any compelling evidence that an LLM, let alone any AI, can operate really well "out of distribution". It's capabilities (in my experience) seem to be spanned by the data it's trained on. Hence, this supposed property that it can "train itself", generating new knowledge in the process, is yet to be proven in my mind.

That raises the question for me: why do OpenAI staff believe what they believe?

If I'm being optimistic, I suppose they may have seen unreleased tech, motivating their beliefs that seemingly AGI is on the horizon.

If I'm being cynical, the promise of AGI probably draws in much more investment. Thus, anyone with a stake in OpenAI has an incentive to promote this narrative of imminent AGI, regardless of how realistic it is technically.

This is of course just based on what I've seen and read, I'd love to see evidence that counter my claims.

Re: Neural Network Diffusion

#74
fuck. I have an idea just like this one. I guess it's true that ideas are a dime a dozen. Diffusions bear a remarkable similarity to backpropagation to me. I thought that it could be used in place of it for some parts of a model.

Furthermore, I posit that resnet especially in transformers allows the model into a more exploratory behavior that is really powerful, and is a necessary component of the power of transformers. Transformers is just such a great architecture the more i think about it. It's doing so many things so right. Although this is not really related to the topic.

Re: Neural Network Diffusion

#75

fuck. I have an idea just like this one. I guess it's true that ideas are a dime a dozen. Diffusions bear a remarkable similarity to backpropagation to me. I thought that it could be used in place of it for some parts of a model. Furthermore, I posit that resnet especially in transformers allows the model into a more exploratory behavior that is really powerful, and is a necessary component of the power of transforme…

Actually it is related.

Transformers are just networks that learn to program the weights of other networks [1]. In the successful cases the programmed network has been quite primitive -- merely a key-value store -- in order to ensure that you can backpropagate errors from the programmed network's outputs all the way to the programmer network's inputs.

The present work extends this idea to a different kind of programmed network: a convolutional image-processing network.

There are many more breakthroughs to be achieved along this line of research -- it is a rich vein to mine. I believe our best shot at getting neural networks to do discrete math and symbolic logic, and to write nontrivial computer programs, will result from this line of research.

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.11174

Re: Neural Network Diffusion

#76
post #4

Seems like we're getting very close to recursive self-improvement [0]. [0] https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/recursive-self-improvement

The real magic of recursive self improvement happens only after you have human-level AI that is able to match and surpass human ability in designing AI architectures. Escape-velocity-breaking recursive self improvement doesn't look like a human-made architecture being trained further, it looks like an AI understanding why transformers/etc were successful and coming up with an advancement over transformers.

Re: Neural Network Diffusion

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is an example of an existing technique called hypernetworks. It's not "recursive self improvement", which is just a belief that magic is real and you can wish an AI into existence. In particular, this one needs too much training data, and you can't define "improvement" without knowing what to improve to.

All current LLMs are based on the premise that magic is real and you can wish intelligence into existence; it's called "scaling laws" and "emergent capabilities". Recursive self-improvement isn't "maybe magic is real", it's "maybe the magic we already know about stays magical as we cast our spells with more mana."

Doesn't this line of reasoning imply that human intelligence is magical, i.e. is not the result of scaling/emergence?

Re: Neural Network Diffusion

#78
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is just a belief that magic is real Is there a law of thermodynamics which prevents AI from writing code which would train a better AI? Never learned that one in school. And FYI here's OpenAI plan to align superintelligence: "Our goal is to build a roughly human-level automated alignment researcher. We can then use vast amounts of compute to scale our efforts, and iteratively align superintelligence." I guess…

> I guess people working there believe in magic. I've been thinking about this recently. Personally, I've yet to see any compelling evidence that an LLM, let alone any AI, can operate really well "out of distribution". It's capabilities (in my experience) seem to be spanned by the data it's trained on. Hence, this supposed property that it can "train itself", generating new knowledge in the process, is yet to be prov…

The question is not whether it can work right now, but whether it is possible in the future (i.e. whether it's possible in principle).

I think the concern about out-of-distribution is overstated. If we train it on predicting machine learning papers, writing machine learning papers is not out-of-distribution.

You might say "but writing NOVEL papers" would be OOD; but there's no sharp boundary between old and new. Model's behavior is usually smooth, so it's not like it will output random bs if you try to predict 2025 papers. And predicting 2025 papers in 2024 all we need to do "recursive self-improvement". (There are also many ways to shift distribution towards where you want it to be, e.g. aesthetics tuning, guidance in diffusion models, etc. Midjourney does not faithfully replicate distribution in the input training set, it's specifically tuned to create more pleasing outputs. So I don't see "oh but we don't have 2025 papers in the training set yet!" being an insurmountable problem.)

But more generally, seeing models as interpolators is useful only to some extent. We use statistical language when training the models, but that doesn't mean that all output should be interpreted as statistics. E.g. suppose I trained a model which generates a plausible proofs. I can combine it with proof-checker (which is much easier than generating a proof), and wrap it into a single function `generate_proof` which is guaranteed to generate a correct proof (it will loop until a plausible proof checks out). Now the statistics do not matter much. It's just a function.

If there's such a thing as a general reasoning step, then all we need is a function which perform that. Then we just add an outer loop to explore a tree of possibilities using these steps. And further improvements might be in making these steps faster and better.

Does reasoning generalize? I'd say everything points to "yes". Math is used in variety of fields. We are yet to find something where math doesn't work. If you get somebody educated in mathematical modeling and give them a new field to model, they won't complain about math being out-of-distribution.

If you look at LLMs today, they struggle with outputting JSON. It's clearly not an out-of-distribution problem, it's a problem with training - the dataset was too noisy, it had too many examples where somebody requests a JSON but gets a JSON-wrapped-in-Markdown. It's just an annoying data cleanup problem, nothing fundamental. I think it's reasonable to assume that within 5 years OpenAI, Google, etc, will manage to clean up their datasets and train more capable, reliable models which demonstrate good reasoning capabilities.

FWIW I believe that if we hit a wall on a road towards AGI that might actually be good to buy more time to research what we actually want out of AGI. But I doubt that any wall will last more than 5 years, as it already seems almost within the reach...

Re: Neural Network Diffusion

#79
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All current LLMs are based on the premise that magic is real and you can wish intelligence into existence; it's called "scaling laws" and "emergent capabilities". Recursive self-improvement isn't "maybe magic is real", it's "maybe the magic we already know about stays magical as we cast our spells with more mana."

Doesn't this line of reasoning imply that human intelligence is magical, i.e. is not the result of scaling/emergence?

The answer is a firm maybe, depending on some factors.

Re: Neural Network Diffusion

#80
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All current LLMs are based on the premise that magic is real and you can wish intelligence into existence; it's called "scaling laws" and "emergent capabilities". Recursive self-improvement isn't "maybe magic is real", it's "maybe the magic we already know about stays magical as we cast our spells with more mana."

Doesn't this line of reasoning imply that human intelligence is magical, i.e. is not the result of scaling/emergence?

Reality is never magical, by definition. Magic just means that we are using something without understanding it.

Whatever our brains are doing internally isn't magical. But it's magic to us because we don't know how it works. So too with current LLMs.

My point is we're already doing things with LLMs that we don't understand and that we didn't think were attainable until two years ago. We don't know how to do superintelligence and recursive self-improvement... but we're off in uncharted territory already, and I think there's a lot more grounds for positive uncertainty about self-improvement than there was before GPT-3.

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