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Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

deprocrastination.co

71–80 of 225 posts

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#71
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a medical expert or anything but I guess there is a good chunk of population who just procrastinates or can struggle with focus without having ADHD? Or is there always a 1:1 relationship?

A lot of people (myself included) procrastinate on something because it's emotionally uncomfortable, without necessarily having ADHD. For example, when I was much younger, I'd procrastinate on math homework specifically, not because I struggled with focus, but because it was difficult to admit to myself that I didn't know how to do it and would need to practice. Subjects that came more naturally to me (English, scien…

Growing up, my parents didn't have encouragement or patience in their emotional toolkit. You were expected to do everything perfectly - homework, writing a letter, any kind of planning, even sweeping the floor or washing dishes - and if you struggled in any way you were berated at length.

Many decades later even mundane things can be a battle - ringing a doctor to ask for an appointment, or a provider to query a bill, filling in forms and so on. Most of my procrastination stems from my experiences back them. It is easier in my mind to defer action than to risk the imagined verbal abuse. I'd imagine a fair share of non-ADHD related organisational issues can be traced to similar experiences.

Just like you can't out-train a bad diet, you can't out-live a shitty childhood.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#72
post #62
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people (myself included) procrastinate on something because it's emotionally uncomfortable, without necessarily having ADHD. For example, when I was much younger, I'd procrastinate on math homework specifically, not because I struggled with focus, but because it was difficult to admit to myself that I didn't know how to do it and would need to practice. Subjects that came more naturally to me (English, scien…

How do you overcome this? I've avoided things due to emotional discomfort my whole life and I don't think I can ever do better at this point. I find that it requires conscious effort to learn to do things that are required as standard for most adults.

With math specifically I had a good teacher in high school who made us practice in class together. He'd get everyone to sit around a table and he'd give handheld whiteboards to every fourth or fifth person (depending on the number of basic steps in the problem), and then the person with the whiteboard would do the first step and pass it to the person on their right. That experience stuck with me because just forcing me to get started (with help available) was enough to quickly clear up anything I was avoiding getting started on at home.

I still avoid doing things because they're emotionally uncomfortable occasionally, so I haven't really found a general solution. But it's gotten better over time and it's less of an issue when I'm more invested in something.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#73
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the diagnostic criteria that is used, it’s so broad it could easily apply to most of the world’s population…as long as they declare they have trouble focusing.

Yeah it’s hard to write specific criteria for some mental disorders. They’re not all uniform in presentation or affect. It’d really be up to the therapist. Thankfully, it doesn’t seem like most of the ADHD meds usually have long lasting adverse effects.

The brain does adapt to adhd meds and there are studies showing this.

The thing I don’t like about adhd is that the premise is the brain doesn’t produce enough dopamine so we return it to normal levels…but the brain always seeks homeostasis so it will adapt by producing more dopamine reuptake cells. There are no conclusive imaging studies or genetic markers for it.

The meds certainly do work but if you ask someone to explain their condition to you they have all have the same simplified and erroneous explanation as to why they can handle addictive meds and the general population cannot.

I think it’s pretty much a general smart drug but with high risk of addiction.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#74
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s likely that a lot more people have ADHD than we think, but I don’t think everyone who procrastinates does so bc of ADHD

If you read the diagnostic criteria that is used, it’s so broad it could easily apply to most of the world’s population…as long as they declare they have trouble focusing.

I disagree. I think that 6 months or more of 5/9 symptoms of inattentiveness or 5/9 symptoms of hyperactivity, persistently, does not represent most of the world. (And excluding: "The symptoms are not solely a manifestation of oppositional behavior, defiance, hostility, or failure to understand tasks or instructions." 6/9 symptoms are required to diagnose children) [0]

Indeed, surveys show that it's probably under 10% [1]. Mind you, these are surveys of symptoms, not surveys of diagnoses.

0. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/

1. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/...

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#75

My first couple of weeks at Bridgewater I was diagnosed with a fear of failure - deep reluctance to set off on a journey unless I could see the entire path through to the other side. I thought that was a good way to be actually (keeps you safe from doomed endeavors) but obviously keeps you from progressing on things where the only way to figure out the path is to walk it. In retrospect it’s a form of anxiety. If you…

You are describing me perfectly.

One of the main things holding me back in life is this fear of taking risks (which translates into a lot of things, like procrastination)

I'm great at mapping project risks though. So there is that. :)

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the classic situation of someone without ADHD telling us "just focus!" or "you just need to write things down!" or "you're just lazy". I have ADHD, and I also do not have a sense of smell (lost it in a TBI when I was a teenager). I tell people, "you take for granted what it's like to have a sense of smell. It affects every moment of your day, catching your interest and directing your attention all the time. Imag…

Memories of my ex-wife admonishing me, while in the throes of a deep, disabling episode of clinical depression, to "Snap out of it!"

[deleted]

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#77
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people (myself included) procrastinate on something because it's emotionally uncomfortable, without necessarily having ADHD. For example, when I was much younger, I'd procrastinate on math homework specifically, not because I struggled with focus, but because it was difficult to admit to myself that I didn't know how to do it and would need to practice. Subjects that came more naturally to me (English, scien…

Growing up, my parents didn't have encouragement or patience in their emotional toolkit. You were expected to do everything perfectly - homework, writing a letter, any kind of planning, even sweeping the floor or washing dishes - and if you struggled in any way you were berated at length. Many decades later even mundane things can be a battle - ringing a doctor to ask for an appointment, or a provider to query a bill…

Really sorry you went through this. Your experience reminds me of mine, which left me to contend with a lifetime of challenges.

> Just like you can't out-train a bad diet, you can't out-live a shitty childhood.

I think I’d challenge this slightly. Out training a bad diet probably doesn’t work, but is better than a bad diet with no training. And when you fix your diet, the training can start working wonders.

My childhood left deep and unhealthy imprints, but I’m no longer in that environment. I think you can out-live a shitty childhood, by changing your diet so to speak. This is grueling work, painful, slow, and often frustrating. But replacing old patterns can really transform living in the same way changing a bad diet can transform the process of training.

Over time I’ve come to believe strongly that the only thing harder than dealing with the past is not dealing with it. And over time, this gradually transforms the present. I very much prefer the late 30s version of me to all of the preceding iterations.

Best of luck on your own journey. Send me an email if you ever want to chat. (Not selling anything, just someone who cares about this topic a lot).

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#78
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be a little weird, but the from us music from brain.fm really helps me. I’ve measured the work I get done over sprints where I listen to brain.fm and where I don’t, and I usually get 2-3 more cards done of weeks that I do. Not a scientific measurement, but it is what it is.

I'm intrigued, but brain.fm requires a credit card for a free trial. Bummer. Edit: I just checked my email and (in the spam folder) was an email from them with a link that works for 3 days. I'm trying it now.

it's worth it, good product

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#79

My first couple of weeks at Bridgewater I was diagnosed with a fear of failure - deep reluctance to set off on a journey unless I could see the entire path through to the other side. I thought that was a good way to be actually (keeps you safe from doomed endeavors) but obviously keeps you from progressing on things where the only way to figure out the path is to walk it. In retrospect it’s a form of anxiety. If you…

To lessen the cost of the first step that begins The Thousand Mile Journey: I plan to do everything at least twice. Leave room for failure in the prediction to (at least partially) avoid the planning fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_fallacy (if you haven't encountered this one weird quirk yet, it's a must read/skim). I believe most mammals tend toward optimism... They naturally have less fear of doomed endeavors.

I had an essay on Emergent Design Principles around here somewhere... For instance, I do a quick and dirty stab in the dark to map the problem space. Then totally rewrite and refactor now that I can make a more educated guess. Right then I generate the API and all (public function stubs), organizing and documenting everything. Management will demand I "ship it" without full docs and full of kluges otherwise...

I'll save the rest of that for a more on-topic thread. The gist is that procrastination can be countered by allotting time to play around in the problem space (incorporate procrastination into workflow -- can't beat it, join it). At worse I try a deliberate attempt at failure (well I knew it wouldn't have worked, but it would have been cool if it had), and at least I got myself into "code mode" doing something at all. No fear of failure, since I planned to fail that time anyway. Then I'll at least know a bit better the "lay of the land" (problem space features to fit against). It's oft the first step for me that's the hardest.

My favorite trick is to have at least one side project that I work on as procrastination of doing main projects. Without fail I'll be worrying about the main project enough that I'll realize some side-project procrastination-code I've just written shows an elegant way forward in the main project and I can no longer resist the urge to see it in action. At the least I'll be making some manner of progress, and getting closer to that "Zen" state wherein I do my main project work.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#80

https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=deprocrastination.co Interesting that pretty much all submissions on the first page of results from this domain is both by the same user and broadly seems to be about the same overarching theme of procrastination. Is OP the author of the site? (OP also posts links to other sites, so not saying OP is doing anything wrong though.)

Since 7 of the last 30 submissions by OP are that site and the pattern continues, I find it absolutely understandable and good-faith to become suspicious. Other users have been accusing the same https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28894120 I don't want to participate in a witch hunt here, but HN needs to stay vigilant against spam and self-promotion that exceeds the reasonable intersection with honestly showing pers…

It‘s not breaking the rules. You‘re breaking the rules.

Stop harassing people!

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