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Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

nature.com

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Re: Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

#71

Post by xkcd-sucks »

chihuahua wrote: post #65
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like what specifically? It is certainly true that there's little difference between naturally and synthetically sourced chemicals of the same identity (ideally, where supply chain doesn't affect composition) But at least naively, these all seem like the least concern: Fairly well behaved nutrient stuff like phosphate rock, nitrates, sulfur, etc.; while all the concerning compounds are synthetic or semisynthetic (besi…

Rotenone is another example. It used to be allowed for use in organic farming, but in 2019 it was shown to be dangerous and was banned for organic farming. If one organic pesticide that was once considered harmless turned out to be dangerous, there can be others that we don't know about yet.

ooh good example thanks. yeah it's super scary mitochondrial ~~uncoupler like MPTP and paraquat~~ actually a scary mitochondrial inhibitor? but its soil/water half life is only a few days

Re: Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

#72

Post by chabes »

riversflow wrote: post #49
chabes wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like your buddy is just using the organic title for marketing purposes. That is unfortunate, but not uncommon. Here’s a source that doesn’t fit your buddy’s description… Along the central coast of California, conventional strawberry growers apply chemicals like methyl bromide, an internationally banned substance that is no longer being manufactured, but is stockpiled for exemptions to the ban, which these grow…

> Here’s a source ? You are an organic strawberry farmer?

I have been involved in organic agriculture, including strawberry production, for more than 15 years. I do consulting, regulatory compliance, and data analysis.

Not currently focused on strawberries, but cannabis has a similar story. The organic alternatives, even the hardcore ones, are less toxic and have much less residual than what is regularly used in conventional agriculture.

Re: Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

#73

Post by chabes »

chasebank wrote: post #41
chabes wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like your buddy is just using the organic title for marketing purposes. That is unfortunate, but not uncommon. Here’s a source that doesn’t fit your buddy’s description… Along the central coast of California, conventional strawberry growers apply chemicals like methyl bromide, an internationally banned substance that is no longer being manufactured, but is stockpiled for exemptions to the ban, which these grow…

"It is true that the National Organic Program is a joke, since they let the board get taken over by corporate big ag long ago. That doesn’t mean “it just makes people feel good and there is virtually zero difference”. In some cases it does, but to paint the whole thing as such is denying the larger reality." The national program is the one that matters, right? Most people consuming organic produce in the US are affec…

The NOP is what I’m referring to as making a difference.

It is at the same time also much less adherent to the philosophy of organics than it could be.

Both are true at the same time. The standards are weakened by big ag, but they are still much less toxic and polluting than conventional standards (or lack there of)

Re: Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

#74

Post by riversflow »

chabes wrote: post #72
riversflow wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here’s a source ? You are an organic strawberry farmer?

I have been involved in organic agriculture, including strawberry production, for more than 15 years. I do consulting, regulatory compliance, and data analysis. Not currently focused on strawberries, but cannabis has a similar story. The organic alternatives, even the hardcore ones, are less toxic and have much less residual than what is regularly used in conventional agriculture.

My experience is that if you are on that side of things no one is gonna be honest with you. To them you are just someone to fool.

Re: Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

#75

Post by chabes »

riversflow wrote: post #74
chabes wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been involved in organic agriculture, including strawberry production, for more than 15 years. I do consulting, regulatory compliance, and data analysis. Not currently focused on strawberries, but cannabis has a similar story. The organic alternatives, even the hardcore ones, are less toxic and have much less residual than what is regularly used in conventional agriculture.

My experience is that if you are on that side of things no one is gonna be honest with you. To them you are just someone to fool.

My experience deals with data and validation, over many years…not what someone tells me

Re: Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

#76

Post by chabes »

candiddevmike wrote: post #30
chabes wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of the chemicals approved for organic crops are even worse Could you name even one organic implement that is “worse” than the conventional alternative?

It's hard to say "worse", but for a lot of organic alternatives the problem is "more"--it requires significantly more applications/frequencies than synthetic alternatives. This can contribute to run off and groundwater contamination.

> This can contribute to run off and groundwater contamination.

More than straight up synthetic nitrogen fertilizer? Or any of the many other commonly used inputs that stick around for way longer than the organic alternatives?

You sound like you’re not convinced that I actually do this for a living, and continue to make up a reality that suits your preconceptions.

Re: Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

#78

Post by s1gnp0st »

amelius wrote: post #52
s1gnp0st wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and how do we even begin to model the interactions between these? The burden of proof is upon those introducing novel substances into my food.

> The burden of proof is upon those introducing novel substances into my food. But in the case of interaction between substance A and B from different vendors, who's responsible?

Both are responsible, the one who spilled gasoline, and the one who flicked a match.

Re: Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

#79

Post by vilicity »

I don't understand why it still seems to be a huge secret.They've genetically modified seeds so that home gardening of fruits and veggies seeds cannot be used to plant future gardens.They tell us that we're using to many antibiotics,yet antibiotics are given to cows,pigs,chickens,the very meats we consume.Maybe that's why antibiotics are being said to not work and not human consumption.The very living conditions of meat consumption is also tainted. Meats are being grown in labs stating a shortage of food yet they are using chemicals like the ones listed here to reduce the foods we need. They recently raised the retirement age to 70 years old. They are trying to use chemicals which cause infertility in humans (read the article here keyword infertile). It's all about controlling population, people not living to retire,yet using them as lab rats while they are on this side of the dirt.Plausable deniability be dammed .

Re: Chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023

#80

Post by JanaKlein »

vilicity wrote: post #79

I don't understand why it still seems to be a huge secret.They've genetically modified seeds so that home gardening of fruits and veggies seeds cannot be used to plant future gardens.They tell us that we're using to many antibiotics,yet antibiotics are given to cows,pigs,chickens,the very meats we consume.Maybe that's why antibiotics are being said to not work and not human consumption.The very living conditions of m…

Has anyone tested cows & chickens? Dogs? General Mills owns Blue Buffalo. It looks like it's been in animal feed since 2007, and purebred dogs have had a noticeable fertility decline since about 2010. "Reverse Flynn effect" started 2011 (steadily decreasing IQs across the board in several countries) as did "trans" population explosion (in same countries.) Ppl think I'm crazy for thinking these issues are population control, so I'm happy to see I'm not alone.
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