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Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

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Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#71

Post by KronisLV »

jojobas wrote: post #37
phantomathkg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can write performant app if you want. But why stopping other on what they want to do?

Because your average Joe doesn't know the difference and the race to the bottom affects everyone.

> Because your average Joe doesn't know the difference and the race to the bottom affects everyone.

Would it be possible that the average Joe is more familiar with a web stack vs a native or cross platform desktop stack?

Is it not possible that the difference therefore might be between:

  - having a questionably performing app built on web technologies
  - vs a buggy one that's built on a native/cross-platform stack, or even not having one altogether because they can't build with that tech
as opposed to:

  - having a questionably performing app built on web technologies
  - having an awesome native/cross-platform app that runs better and respects the OS design
Or, who knows, maybe it's just cheaper to use web tech and those other options have failed to make themselves as easy to get started with and work on, especially when you're looking for good cross platform options that would run nearly everywhere and be popular enough to have tooling and tutorials.

It's the same how something like Rust might be a good fit for writing correct web applications, but very few people actually use it for that and might instead reach for something like Python because that lets them iterate faster, even if neither the type system, nor the performance is great.

Actually, who knows, maybe the problem is not that there's not enough "good software" out there, but rather that different people have wildly different views on what matters, in addition to there just being too much software in general.

Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#72

Post by EasyMark »

GuB-42 wrote: post #8
sa-code wrote: post #4

Wasn't servo's purpose to essentially be a testing ground for features that would eventually be pushed to Firefox?

That's what happened, but if I remember correctly, it was supposed to be an entirely new engine. I had a lot of hope for it, as the demo looked really promising at the time. It really was what Mozilla needed to get back on track, because to be honest, Firefox was pretty sucky when compared to Chrome at that time. I also liked the idea of inventing a whole programming language for that purpose (Rust), it reminded me o…

Servo didn't need to be dropped, rust could have been handled oh so much better. Mozilla is not being run very well, they need to cut their "social" activities and focus on the browser and promoting free software through example rather than preaching, just throw some of that Google money at EFF/ACLU instead. I am kind of neutral on pocket and their other activities. I don't see how they could go wrong with partnerships like with Mullvad though. focus focus focus is what they need as well as a new CEO

Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#73

Post by whywhywhywhy »

yoavm wrote: post #46
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then Mozilla had a sustainability crisis and One way to word it... CEO had a 400% pay increase since 2018 All while Firefox browser market share dropped from 11.87% to 7.58% during the same period. World would be a better place without the Mozilla Foundation

Because without the Mozilla Foundation the Firefox market share would raise?

I mean even staying stagnant would be an improvement over the current management that seems more focused on selling VPN scams and other farces.

Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#74

Post by EasyMark »

theusus wrote: post #58
sa-code wrote: post #4

Wasn't servo's purpose to essentially be a testing ground for features that would eventually be pushed to Firefox?

It was a supposedly replacement for Firefox that's written in Rust.

no it was to eventually be replacement for gecko engine. It was used as a testbed for a while before mozilla killed it, and it was forked for open source. Huge difference.

Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#75

Post by black_puppydog »

ephemeral-life wrote: post #9
Joeboy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which leads me to wonder, what would be the reason for doing that rather than just using the system WebView?

You won't have to worry about different engines and their edge cases. But at that point we are back to electron, but in rust.

... and with an easy way to control what gets baked into your engine. maybe you don't actually need that Xbox controller driver in your app. :)

Cargo's feature management should make this quite simple.

Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#76

Post by rubymamis »

asoneth wrote: post #60
jojobas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's an awesome idea to waste few hundred megabytes of RAM to run your app. This browser-in-a-box cancer needs to die a painful death.

I agree it's disappointing to think I've found a native app only to realize it's just an Electron app. But I don't need the idea to die, I just want better transparency in app stores so I can know ahead of time whether an application is native or just a wrapped webapp. > This browser-in-a-box cancer needs to die a painful death. That depends on what you think the result would be. What do you think companies who use E…

> But I don't need the idea to die, I just want better transparency in app stores so I can know ahead of time whether an application is native or just a wrapped webapp.

That’s a great idea. Or a simple “Native App” badge for native apps.

Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#77

Post by pier25 »

thinkingemote wrote: post #13

I would like to see Positron rebooted. Positron is to Firefox what electron is to chromium. https://mykzilla.org/2017/03/08/positron-discontinued/

And in that vein, a reduced version of Servo for rendering desktop/games GUIs.

There's a lot of stuff in CSS and HTML nobody uses anymore like floats, blink, marquee, etc.

Ultralight has a product based on that idea but I think they use WebKit.

https://ultralig.ht/

Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#78

Post by rubymamis »

EasyMark wrote: post #69
coldacid wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qt?

too many gotchas with LGPL to become a universal solutions. I wish that gtk was more stable across all platforms. I have a few on macos and some are less than ... stable... compared to on linux.

I don’t think it’s as bad as you make it to be. Qt is a great option imo.

Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#79

Post by pxc »

steve_rambo wrote: post #70
pquki4 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you won't get Skype, Slack, Teams and many other applications people use on a daily basis on Linux, at all. Features on Mac will be limited compared to Windows version, because the team prioritizes work on the platform with the largest userbase. There will be more inconsistencies in feature and UI for "desktop" version vs web version, if companies still bother to maintain two versions. That's the future you want…

Telegram manages just fine, and looks the same on all platforms. I even ran it on FreeBSD for a few weeks with no issues. Their desktop client is developed pretty much by one person in C++ with Qt. It's really feature rich these days and actually works, unlike some of the things you've listed.

Doesn't Telegram use a web view via QtWebkit?

Re: Mozilla's abandoned web engine 'Servo' project is getting a reboot

#80

Post by mcronce »

phantomathkg wrote: post #35
jojobas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's an awesome idea to waste few hundred megabytes of RAM to run your app. This browser-in-a-box cancer needs to die a painful death.

You can write performant app if you want. But why stopping other on what they want to do?

Because I also want to run performant apps.
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