Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead • Hacker News Board

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#71

Post by emj » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:09 PM UTC

crimbles wrote: post #46

Barclays closed my mother’s bank accounts because they thought she had died. It was a “clerical error” ie someone had received a death certificate and processed it with about as much rigour as a 2 year old could muster. They sorted it within 5 days though and paid out compensation and sent her a hamper as an apology. Hopefully they fired the moron who kicked off the process too. At the end of the day this shit happen…

> Hopefully they fired the moron

As you say things happens, so who are you going to fire? It mostly is just a bad coincidences that make these things happens, it mostly is not the guy committing the error who is at fault. I do not want to live in a society where you treat the administrative clerks like you imply.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#72

Post by Snow_Falls » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:09 PM UTC

mrmanner wrote: post #12

> letters make no mention of a deadline or the fact that their payments will cease if they do not respond within 28 days. A spokesperson said this was “to avoid causing upset” This is the most stereotypically British thing I’ve heard this year

It's also a blatant lie, the system is broken and the government allows social services to be so bad because it wants to spend as little money on them as possible.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#73

Post by ajross » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:09 PM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #62

zimpenfish wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, there have been several stories (normally "world's oldest person!!!" type) where relatives have been claiming pensions and benefits for sometimes decades after the actual person died. Whether the number of those stories and the amount of money involved is worth the hassle to the people not defrauding governments is left as an exercise to the reader...

To be fair? That's like saying "To be fair, some people try to steal money from banks, so it's okay if the ATM sometimes doesn't work."

More like, "some people try to commit fraud, so banks are required to implement AML/KYC processes to make the attack more difficult". Repeatedly asserting one is not dead is, if you think about it, more or less analogous to the documentation requirements for managing a large account at an investment bank.

Is it the best solution? Likely not. But the problem is real and does demand a solution of some form.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#74

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:10 PM UTC

After the post office scandal you'd think that entities like these would think long and hard about their responsibilities towards the people they interact with.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#75

Post by wslh » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:12 PM UTC

Macha wrote: post #65

wslh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I am missing something. Are you saying that the people that are dying every day, in the developed world, is uncounted by a big margin? What is that margin?

Japan estimated 5% in 2006, for one data point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi

Japan is Japan [1]. What is your data point for European and American countries?

[1] https://hansondoremus.com/2014-4-28-there-are-four-kinds-of-...

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#76

Post by jpc0 » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:14 PM UTC

crimbles wrote: post #46

Barclays closed my mother’s bank accounts because they thought she had died. It was a “clerical error” ie someone had received a death certificate and processed it with about as much rigour as a 2 year old could muster. They sorted it within 5 days though and paid out compensation and sent her a hamper as an apology. Hopefully they fired the moron who kicked off the process too. At the end of the day this shit happen…

> Hopefully they fired the moron who kicked off the process too.

God forbit you make such a grave mistake as reading a number off a piece of paper and typing it into a system incorrectly.

It's almost asif the interaction between the systems is the problem and not the human on the end...

It may even have been some sort of "AI" that happened to recognise a letter incorrectly.

It's quick to call for people tp be fired, not that you would ever make a simple mistake.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#77

Post by Almondsetat » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:24 PM UTC

derivative7 wrote: post #66

methou wrote: post #50

Every year my grand parents have to take a photo of themselves holding a recent newspaper with date clearly visible to whoever is managing their pension. After the internet and apps plaged the world, now they have to download an app then tilt node and wink to the camera to prove that they are alive. ("If you cannot use a phone, ask your children") I have mixed feeling about this, it's hard to say this is not degenera…

Is it so terrible to do a very simple procedure once a year to avoid fraud?

what happens if they become incapacitated?

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#78

Post by lazide » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:24 PM UTC

wslh wrote: post #75

Macha wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan estimated 5% in 2006, for one data point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi

Japan is Japan [1]. What is your data point for European and American countries? [1] https://hansondoremus.com/2014-4-28-there-are-four-kinds-of-...

You’re asking for the concrete number of people who are dead, but the folks in the system don’t know it?

And where there is a financial incentive for recipients to hide this fact?

That’s about as (actually) knowable as how many folks in LA are drug dealers.

We know some are, clearly, since they’ve been caught. But that is not going to be even close to correct in real terms, because they are of course going to work very hard to not get caught.

https://www.crfb.org/press-releases/fact-sheet-how-much-wast...

States “ According to the Social Security Administration’s Inspector General, in 2013 just over 1,500 deceased individuals in all age ranges were still receiving benefits. They account for only $15 million in improper benefit payments.”

And “According to the Social Security Administration, all improper payments, including payments to the deceased and the very old, are estimated at about $3 billion per year.”

That is in the US. And the SSA is really aggressive in trying to track down these issues. Most other pensions don’t have their resources or the type of political pressure they get.

I’ve personally overheard enough discussions among old folks to know that isn’t even the tip of the iceberg though, anymore than arresting Bob for possessing coke is ‘stopping drug trafficking’.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#79

Post by mnw21cam » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:25 PM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #44

Sounds like there are some ex-Fujitsu or ex-Post Office staff working at Capita.

No such thing is necessary. Capita are a "phenomenon" of their very own. The Fujitsu and Post Office managers probably learnt from Capita.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#80

Post by wildpeaks » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:27 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #74

After the post office scandal you'd think that entities like these would think long and hard about their responsibilities towards the people they interact with.

They have no incentive to do anything unless it costs them enough money.