[flagged]
Genuinely curious: why should Apple be forced to host apps that don't pay them while Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft continue to extract 30% of all sales on their consoles?
Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
71–80 of 408 posts
Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
#72[flagged]
I believe a share of revenue is not uncommon in shopping mall leases. e.g.:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/clb-percentage-rent....
Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is two big corporations arguing over which one makes more profit from you. This slightly oversimplifies the situation, as Apple's policy is pretty clearly anti-competitive and, more importantly, anti-developer. As a developer, you have to bump your prices because of the Apple tax. (And even as a consumer, prices are pushed up. Let's say you want to sell X for $10; too bad: you now have to sell it for $12 if yo…
It's legally settled, so, from a US law perspective, it's clearly not ant-competitive, and the US will need new legislation if that's not good enough. I figure you probably see this very clearly, but the problem is that a lot of people don't see it that way, and the law doesn't. Clarifying what is anti-competitive in your view, and crucially what other economic and competition trade-offs you're willing to make to rea…
For clarification, you might start by noting that recent anti-competitive rulings apply contextually to the US mobile app market.
Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps Apple’s hardware is unmatched in part because they profit from it by using the very mechanisms you don’t like. The engineering resources to focus on perfect hardware aren’t cheap. There is plenty of junk hardware out there that gives you more freedom.
I am sorry this is a total fabrication - we know the sales of iPhones entirely cover all expenses associated with hardware manufacturing and R&D. Their margins on laptops are thinner but the AppStore is not as relevant there. The situation is the other way round - it’s the App Store that makes the iPhone useful. Windows Phone (the remake one) had good hardware, it literally was killed by lack of apps. I had one, I mi…
And who played part in Windows Phone demise?
Epic? Which never released the Unreal Engine for Windows Phone and now cries the loudest about the status quo.
Or the 1000’s of developers who abandoned pre App Store distribution models in favor of Apple’s hardware, software and APIs, happily signed up to 30% revenue share with Apple that didn't change in 15 years? (other than go down to 15% for 90% of sellers who do under a million of annual revenue)
Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
#75Can anyone provide a link to context on what OP is talking about, for those who don't know it? I don't understand what Apple is actually doing from this tweet/thread. Are they are somehow managing to force even payment links from ordinary web sites in an ordinary web browser (Safari?) to go through them as payment processor? (How?) Or is this a new rule for app store apps (what is the new rule?) Or a new payment stru…
[flagged]
> not if you pay or even how much you pay.
Sure it is. I'm an app dev and I charge less on the web (via Stripe) than I do on the app stores. I actually have to charge 1 / (1 - 0.30) ≈ 43% more to get the same amount of sales on the app stores as I can do on the web. The 30% is an arbitrary tax that causes the consumer to suffer.
Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is two big corporations arguing over which one makes more profit from you. This slightly oversimplifies the situation, as Apple's policy is pretty clearly anti-competitive and, more importantly, anti-developer. As a developer, you have to bump your prices because of the Apple tax. (And even as a consumer, prices are pushed up. Let's say you want to sell X for $10; too bad: you now have to sell it for $12 if yo…
As a developer, if Apple's fees went away, would you drop your price or just make more profit? Prices may have been pushed up but there is little incentive for them to ever come down.
I do this already for my apps, as stated in my other comment upthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39035814
Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
#77[flagged]
Genuinely curious: why should Apple be forced to host apps that don't pay them while Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft continue to extract 30% of all sales on their consoles?
Apple isn't forced to host anything.
Console manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to extract those fees either.
Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
#78I think what’s missing here is sideloading. The new terms apple set are ridiculous, but it’s their App Store, so whatever.
However, this iPhone is my device and I should be able to install whatever app I’d like on it. Without that freedom, Apple has no competition and can set their fees as high as they please.
Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
#79Apple must allow alternate payment modes without imposing a gatekeeper tax. It must be consistent without exceptions (i.e. not just Amazon). The issue is not the gratuitous fee, it is the lack of choice. iOS is more ubiquitous than macOS yet more restrictive--it cannot last. This entitlement is so restrictive -- it just seems vindictive. Apple's market share and success means additional responsibility. The argument t…
I will risk an avalanche of downvotes and steel man Apple's argument. :)
Have you ever gotten stuck with a monthly fee for something that's hard to cancel? It's a real pain the butt, no?
But that never really happens on Apple devices, because Apple makes it incredibly easy to cancel subscriptions. You don't have to call anyone, you don't have to struggle with a bad website -- you just click cancel on your phone and it's done. And it's all in one place too -- no bank statement required.
They are also a check on other dark patterns, like silently increasing charges without a clear notification to customers. I don't even get spammed because Apple proxies my emails from app developers.
One of the main reasons I buy things from Apple (on my device) and Amazon (if it's a physical good) is so that I have a company I sorta trust to do the right thing if things go sideways (cancelations, returns, fraud, etc.).
Once every app developer is pushing me to enter my credit card on their website, that all goes out the window. Dark patterns common on the web and on Android will take over the iOS ecosystem too.
I also am going to take an unpopular opinion and say that Apple probably earns that fee. The fact that Android isn't that valuable to app developers proves that Apple's reputation and standards are what drives a lot of their app store revenue. App devs feel like they're providing all the value, but I suspect it's often not truly the case. I know this is an unpopular opinion amongst us devs.
I don't even know if I truly buy these arguments, but I thought it'd be more interesting here if there was at least one comment defending Apple.
Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases
#80I think what’s missing here is sideloading. The new terms apple set are ridiculous, but it’s their App Store, so whatever. However, this iPhone is my device and I should be able to install whatever app I’d like on it. Without that freedom, Apple has no competition and can set their fees as high as they please.
They do have competition. Most phones aren't iPhones.