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Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

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Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#71

This website claims turning the computer off and on will prompt macOS to search for Bluetooth keyboard/mouse if there isn’t one connected. https://macreports.com/how-to-turn-on-bluetooth-on-your-mac-... I don’t understand how one is supposed to do this without a keyboard or mice though: > If you are working on documents, save them, and close them.

Someone else pointed this out, I didn’t know. Although, yes, if they needed to close any prompts that might have been a problem.

Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#72
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A keyboard is sufficient to turn Bluetooth on: • Hit ⌘-space to open Spotlight. • Type enough of "bluetooth file exchange" to find the Bluetooth File Exchange app and launch it. • Bluetooth File Exchange will see that Bluetooth is off and give you a dialog offering to turn it on, with turning it on the default action, so just hit return and Bluetooth will get turned on.

>"No grandpa, hit the one that looks like it has a pretzel on it"

Or "the key that has the word 'command' printed on it" or "the key one left of the space bar" or "the key one right of the space bar".

Or, if their Mac supports "Hey Siri" and it is enabled, "Hey Siri, Open Bluetooth File Exchange".

Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#73
Reminds me: After moving, my PC (desktop) and mouse where available, but the keyboard still in one of many unopened boxes. Had to quickly check something, should be doable with mouse only. Only to be greeted by the BIOS message: "Keyboard error or no keyboard present, press F9 to continue".

Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#74
> So why doesn't macOS warn the user before you disconnect all your peripherals?

What version of MacOS and what specific Mac and what Bluetooth mouse and keyboard?

On my 2017 iMac running 13 (Ventura) which has a Bluetooth keyboard but a USB mouse trying to turn of Bluetooth brings up a dialog that asks if I'm sure and warns me that if I turn it off I won't be able to control the Mac with a Bluetooth mouse, keyboard, or trackpad, and gives me options to cancel or proceed to turn off Bluetooth.

On my 2023 Mac Studio running 14.2.1 (Sonoma) on which both the keyboard and mouse are Bluetooth it gives me a dialog that says in bold "You cannot control your computer if you turn Bluetooth off at this time", and below that in non-bold repeats that with "as you would lose your input devices" added.

It only has an "OK" button which dismisses the dialog, leaving Bluetooth enabled.

The Bluetooth keyboards on both of those are Apple Magic Keyboards, and the Bluetooth mouse on the Mac Studio is an Apple Magic Mouse. I wonder if the warnings only happen if you are using at least one Apple input device?

Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, are you saying you just trade the wireless functionality from the built in Bluetooth to an external Bluetooth dongle?

A physical OEM USB dongle on PC side, whether Bluetooth or not, and an On/Off switch on the peripheral side would have certainly prevented the issue in discussion.

Surely if you disable bluetooth in the OS it'll disable any bluetooth dongles as well?

Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#76
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever tried using an Apple mouse while charging? ;) Jokes aside, not all bluetooth devices turn wired once plugged in. I know my MX Keys USB-C port is only for charging, for example.

A keyboard is sufficient to turn Bluetooth on: • Hit ⌘-space to open Spotlight. • Type enough of "bluetooth file exchange" to find the Bluetooth File Exchange app and launch it. • Bluetooth File Exchange will see that Bluetooth is off and give you a dialog offering to turn it on, with turning it on the default action, so just hit return and Bluetooth will get turned on.

How do you hit cmd-space when your keyboard is disconnected?

Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#77

Great question. Something like, "This computer has no input devices. Check your keyboard and mouse." Seems like pretty important use case for a personal computer targeting people who may not have grown up around computers or even finished high school. As a user of personal computers, I should be able to easily determine if my computer is configured for basic use.

That error message is very poor. Check your keyboard and mouse? I don't even know what you mean by that. This computer has no input devices? Well that is simply false. The user is currently using an input device when they see this message. Here's a better message: "Warning! Disabling Bluetooth will disconnect your wireless keyboard and wireless mouse. You will need to use a wired keyboard and wired mouse to re-enable…

Never use the word "Cancel" in a warning dialog.

It is easy to get confused. Cancel what? Cancel Bluetooth? Cancel the turning off of Bluetooth?

Better are two buttons like this: [Keep Bluetooth running] [Disable Bluetooth].

Mac OS does this often right. I say this somewhat grudgingly.

Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, are you saying you just trade the wireless functionality from the built in Bluetooth to an external Bluetooth dongle?

The dongle is definitely not using Bluetooth. Wireless peripherals with USB dongles generally have their own custom radio protocol, for better or worse.

Before later revisions of Bluetooth with ultra-low-power modes, a mouse using Bluetooth was considerably more power-hungry than dedicated radio interfaces -- short battery life.

Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#79
post #76
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A keyboard is sufficient to turn Bluetooth on: • Hit ⌘-space to open Spotlight. • Type enough of "bluetooth file exchange" to find the Bluetooth File Exchange app and launch it. • Bluetooth File Exchange will see that Bluetooth is off and give you a dialog offering to turn it on, with turning it on the default action, so just hit return and Bluetooth will get turned on.

How do you hit cmd-space when your keyboard is disconnected?

This branch of the thread is about the case where your Bluetooth devices charge by USB, and so you grab your charging cable and connect them to your computer. It was pointed out that Apple's Bluetooth mouse does not work over USB even though it does charge over USB.

My point is that you do not need to get your mouse connected in order to turn on Bluetooth. You just need to get one of {keyboard, mouse, trackpad} connected.

Re: Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

#80
My wife has a similar problem with the iMac supplied wireless mouse. She'll go to click-drag something and catch the power switch, which is on the underside of the mouse, on the mousepad turning off the mouse. This has happened maybe four times in the two years we've had it, but everytime it's been "The computer crashed!" and gets power-cycled, losing work. Of course it's still "crashed" when it comes back up because the mouse is turned off. This post makes me feel like I should put a sticky note on there to check the mouse next time.
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