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Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

appleinsider.com

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Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#71

Post by paulmd »

pjerem wrote: post #14
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #4

My take on this whole thing is that this is basically an elaborate plan to eventually use this in court against Apple to prove its anti-competitive practices. If not for court, then at the least this is a press strategy orchestrated by someone with an interest in opening up the iMessage monopoly. I’m sure the founder realized early on that the prospects of this becoming a valuable company on its own merits were slim…

Since Beeper main product is a multi protocol messaging app and iMessage is the only protocol that resists them, yes, it’s probably both. I know it’s marketing but at the end of the day, they are fighting for a cause that matters to me and their bridges are open source so I wish them good luck.

> Since Beeper main product is a multi protocol messaging app and iMessage is the only protocol that resists them,

That’s absolutely not true though. Discord is incredibly hostile to third-party clients today for example.

https://twitter.com/discord/status/1229357198918197248?lang=...

Can’t log into Xbox live or PS5 messaging with a third party client either I’d expect. It’s not an unusual ask for a “secure” system - even if they provide a web interface they certainly don’t let you pretend to be a fake Xbox and create an account and then connect some third-party crap that continues to pretend to be an Xbox.

Hell didn’t Microsoft just crack down on third party headsets of all things? You really, really think they’re ok with you spoofing a whole Xbox on their network?

https://www.engadget.com/microsoft-bans-unauthorized-third-p...

Hell even AIM and MSN would try to break Gaim and ban users who used it back in the day - they just weren’t starting from a good enough place to be very successful at it.

https://m.slashdot.org/story/13509

That’s the overall problem is the world doesn’t quite work the way people remembered it. AOL was never happy about Gaim, Xbox and Sony and discord carry on this legacy today. If you simplify the issue even further: Google isn’t going to leave an open smtp relay if you find a way to spoof it, they certainly aren’t going to let you run a commercial service reselling it.

The whole “but nobody EVER fought against adversarial interop or banned users for using it!” before schtick is objectively not how the world worked or works and I think most of the people saying it understand that perfectly well, it’s just an angle for them to press the attack.

Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#72

Post by bensecure »

redserk wrote: post #42
ericzawo wrote: post #16

Went from "Here's to the crazy ones" to "we'll punish our customers for not jumping how we say" in 30 years.

Completely disagree on this. This is Beeper, a for-profit company, throwing a tantrum, violating the ToS of Apple but leaving Beeper's users and their friends holding the bag.

Beeper would have to have agreed to the ToS for them to have broken it. It's apple's users who agreed to a ToS, and apple users who got the boot. The lesson is that apple doesn't treat their users very well, not that some no name company who's fifteen minutes of fame are done isn't responsible enough.

Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#73

Post by redserk »

rustcleaner wrote: post #66
dghlsakjg wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all honesty, this kind of discourse is insulting to the target audience, and not going to win over anyone to your cause. If you call the people you are trying to convince "idiots, rubes, and otherwise "consumer"-personality types" then they stop listening after that point. Which is probably fortunate since you called for a "digital 9/11". Call me crazy, but I don't want a repeat of an event where thousands of peop…

>You are associating your cause with superior attitudes, insults, and unfriendliness. Pent up frustration at the hidden injustice of the whole thing and the apathy I am constantly met with; sue me. >You know who hasn't called me an idiot or a rube? The makers of iMessage. Their marketing methods are way more pernicious, but one example among myriad: https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/comments/b6w9iu/oh... Soci…

Are you implying that by iMessage being available on Android will solve the ridiculous association filtering some people engage in?

It's a common practice. It ranges from sports teams, to geography (living on the other side of highways/rivers), to even OSes -- like the weird attitude some Linux folks have about Windows not being a proper OS to develop in.

Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#74

Post by bensecure »

crazygringo wrote: post #49
kevingadd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you call it other than retaliation? Punishment? Surprise behavior?

It's just banning. It's no different than if you get caught running cheat software in an online game. The company isn't "retaliating" against you, or even "punishing" you -- they're just banning you. You broke the rules and that's what happens.

> The company isn't "retaliating" against you, or even "punishing" you

yes they are

> You broke the rules and that's what happens.

And when it happens its called a "punishment", which is a kind of "retaliation". Words don't stop applying because you don't like their connotation.

Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#75

Post by dmz73 »

bscphil wrote: post #67
crazygringo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just banning. It's no different than if you get caught running cheat software in an online game. The company isn't "retaliating" against you, or even "punishing" you -- they're just banning you. You broke the rules and that's what happens.

This site rightly has a different attitude when, say, HP remotely bricks working printers because someone used unauthorized ink. We don't sit back and say "you broke the rules and that's what happens."

You cannot argue with Apple users on any topic that is critical of Apple. For them, Apple can do no wrong. If Apple hardware breaks due to manufacturing fault, they will criticize the person for not buying Apple-care and then suggest just buying another Apple device. Apple is their identify. In this case iMessage is the safe haven that they can trust and allowing external (non-Apple) users would violate that feeling of safety.

Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#76

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #53
ericzawo wrote: post #16

Went from "Here's to the crazy ones" to "we'll punish our customers for not jumping how we say" in 30 years.

I highly doubt they're "punishing" customers or even "retaliating" like the article says. They've always banned iMessage access that they determined to be compromised. It's part of security and preventing abuse. It just probably took a couple weeks for their automated system to detect. Hopefully affected users can get it working again on their Macs via customer service, if they even care.

[deleted]

Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#77

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

eek2121 wrote: post #7
pram wrote: post #2

Yeah this isn’t surprising, I’ve had this happen to hackintoshes over the years. Apple has always had the ability to ban serials from iMessage afaict, and it also (seemed) to be some automated process. It was frankly pretty risky to tell people to use their real machines for this.

[flagged]

Would this be with or without the consent of those devices’ owners?

Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#78

Post by JumpCrisscross »

eek2121 wrote: post #7
pram wrote: post #2

Yeah this isn’t surprising, I’ve had this happen to hackintoshes over the years. Apple has always had the ability to ban serials from iMessage afaict, and it also (seemed) to be some automated process. It was frankly pretty risky to tell people to use their real machines for this.

[flagged]

> get the majority of legitimate Mac and iOS devices banned. Apple will then have to consider other options.

Compromising others’ accounts and devices, without their permission, seems to clearly cross the line from civil fiddling to criminal behaviour. At the very least, if my device were impacted like this, I would point my finger at the perpetrator, not Apple.

Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#79

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bscphil wrote: post #67
crazygringo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just banning. It's no different than if you get caught running cheat software in an online game. The company isn't "retaliating" against you, or even "punishing" you -- they're just banning you. You broke the rules and that's what happens.

This site rightly has a different attitude when, say, HP remotely bricks working printers because someone used unauthorized ink. We don't sit back and say "you broke the rules and that's what happens."

> when, say, HP remotely bricks working printers because someone used unauthorized ink

There is evidence of intent and immutability, i.e. nobody has shown Apple won’t reverse the ban when shown the device is legitimately accessing iMessage.

Re: Beeper Mini users find Macs banned from iMessage network

#80

Post by pedalpete »

troupo wrote: post #63
larubbio wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It works with SMS as well, and I just don't have to think about it. I have a mac laptop and an android phone. My son has an iphone. Half of his responses to my text messages go to my phone, the other half go to my laptop and I miss them. This is a major problem, imessage shouldn't be greedy about grabbing messages, especially when replying to an SMS. I've missed picking him up from places because I didn't get the r…

The fact that the iMessage team still can't figure out how Apple's own sync works is mind boggling. Messages are always lost, or marked as read when they are not, or marked as unread even if I deleted them on other device, or...

Isn't this only a problem if one of your devices trying to access these messages is a non-apple device?

For a while I was switching between an iPhone and Android (I was deving on both platforms and so would switch them out regularly).

Then I found out the Apple would think I was still using the iPhone, and would therefore would send my messages via iMessage, and I'd have no idea I wasn't getting them.

But what incentive does Apple have to change this? And realistically, how many people does it impact.

Do most apple people know that iMessage isn't using SMS? I think they just look at it as an app that sends messages to everyone.

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