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We need technology that is less immersive, not more

filiph.net

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Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#71

Post by madsbuch »

massysett wrote: post #47

"I hope you’ll agree that humanity has a variety of important engineering problems to solve, and nicer-looking graphics is quite low on that list." I used to sneer at the social value of entertainment. Then covid lockdowns hit. I spent a lot of time playing Factorio. When professional sports resumed playing (in empty stadiums, with fake crowd noise on the broadcasts) I was happy to sit on the couch after work and wat…

While I think most people understand this sentiment, the root issue here was the lock-down – Yes, if you imprison a whole nation it is good to have some sedation. You could say that a lot of people wouldn't have gone through lock-downs without alcohol and porn either. That does not make it more admirable.

I agree in the sentiment that we have more important issues than providing ever more entertainment – we had no issues spending our time 50 years ago; Without immersive technologies. Instead of translating the extra resources technology have given to more entertainment, we could have translated it into more free time.

I would happily have less consoles, VR, and games and instead have a nation-wide 30 hour workweek (I need my friends not to work either).

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#72

Post by robot_no_421 »

hopa wrote: post #66

I feel like you only see articles like this written by game developers. Something about making video games for a living makes you question the value of what you’re creating.

The longer I remain a software engineer the more I hate relying on computers. Maybe the people closest to the technology are the ones to first realize how superficial and downright damaging these innovations actually are.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#73

Post by atorodius »

massysett wrote: post #47

"I hope you’ll agree that humanity has a variety of important engineering problems to solve, and nicer-looking graphics is quite low on that list." I used to sneer at the social value of entertainment. Then covid lockdowns hit. I spent a lot of time playing Factorio. When professional sports resumed playing (in empty stadiums, with fake crowd noise on the broadcasts) I was happy to sit on the couch after work and wat…

This comment made me sad. I would hope we aim for jobs that don‘t invoke the feeling of „trudging“ and the need for „entertainment“.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#74

Post by filiph »

massysett wrote: post #47

"I hope you’ll agree that humanity has a variety of important engineering problems to solve, and nicer-looking graphics is quite low on that list." I used to sneer at the social value of entertainment. Then covid lockdowns hit. I spent a lot of time playing Factorio. When professional sports resumed playing (in empty stadiums, with fake crowd noise on the broadcasts) I was happy to sit on the couch after work and wat…

Nobody disputes that entertainment has value. The article is about the fact that so much talent and resources is funneled into immersion.

Using your neurosurgeon example, I posit that having fewer VR headsets will not prevent the doctor from unwinding. Nor will having mobile phones with less vibrant colors or application with lower engagement metrics.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#75

Post by williamcotton »

When I write poetry, song lyrics, or music, I am fully immersed.

The difference between video games and art is that I create the environment that I am immersed within.

Sure, like English or any other language, I’ve inherited the cultural context for my artistic endeavors, but that context is a basic requirement for any sort of immersive activity.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#76

Post by paulddraper »

massysett wrote: post #47

"I hope you’ll agree that humanity has a variety of important engineering problems to solve, and nicer-looking graphics is quite low on that list." I used to sneer at the social value of entertainment. Then covid lockdowns hit. I spent a lot of time playing Factorio. When professional sports resumed playing (in empty stadiums, with fake crowd noise on the broadcasts) I was happy to sit on the couch after work and wat…

How things look is important.

Not as important as how they function, but still important.

People, software programs, buildings, landscapes... appearance is information, about quality, about professionalism, about creativity, about attention to detail.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#77

Post by Animats »

After reading the article, I was expecting his game to be something like Tetris or some 8-bit retro thing. It's not, though.

Full immersion is entertainment, consuming your full attention. Like a movie theater or a stage play. That's OK, but not full time. Light immersion is walking around with your nose in your phone for most of your waking hours. That may be worse.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#78

Post by calamari4065 »

I wonder if the author realizes that there are eight billion humans. They can't all work on the same thing. And the majority of people who are not engineers and who just work regular mindless jobs need entertainment.

Also we've had entertainment since the dawn of time. People don't just go home and stare at the wall for sixteen hours before going back to work. Almost none are going home from work to solve humanity's Real Problems(tm). Entertainment holds significant value to everyone plus or minus a few percent.

But really the author has a critique of capitalism and doesn't want to admit it. The complaint is that art is a product you're expected to pay for and consume, and individual artists almost can't even exist without spending all their time advertising. Imagine how much art would be produced if artists weren't forced to choose between making art and paying rent.

All in all, the author is yelling at clouds because other people have values he disagrees with and refuses to understand

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#79

Post by Dracophoenix »

massysett wrote: post #47

"I hope you’ll agree that humanity has a variety of important engineering problems to solve, and nicer-looking graphics is quite low on that list." I used to sneer at the social value of entertainment. Then covid lockdowns hit. I spent a lot of time playing Factorio. When professional sports resumed playing (in empty stadiums, with fake crowd noise on the broadcasts) I was happy to sit on the couch after work and wat…

Funny you mention Factorio, because there's a Reddit thread where most of the commenters came to same conclusion you did.

https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/ml00ac/how_...

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#80

Post by feoren »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #51
kamaradclimber wrote: post #2

Many of the most talented artists of our time don’t do any art — they work in advertising. I think the original quote is: The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads (source: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/06/12/click/ ) which is very close to article’s paraphrase

You could really say this about anything, the only moral to the story is that people have to work to pay the bills and the work that pays is the unglamorous stuff that needs doing. I believe this has been true throughout human history. The greatest artists and thinkers throughout history have earned their keep by providing services to the wealthy or teaching paying students (also often wealthy). There are upsides, th…

> the unglamorous stuff that needs doing.

You're thinking of picking up the trash, driving trucks, fixing toilets, and assembling wheelbarrows. That pays shit: the things that "need doing" are mostly just not done, and what is done pays nothing. Advertising has never "needed doing", it's always been an exploit that psychopaths use to enrich themselves at the expense of all of humanity. And the advertising industry is nothing if not glamorous.

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