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Cloudflare lays off new hires

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Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#71

Possibly stupid question - why are so many companies laying off? According to Wallstreet, the majority of the recession scare isn't a scare. Inflation, while not fully at target, is getting better. Unemployment is at an all time low. So many companies are laying off like it's the worst times ahead. Obviously layoffs aren't taken lightly so there must be some internal signals that really push them to take these measur…

[dead]

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#72
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The harder, riskier, and more expensive you make it to hire new people, the more companies will play it safe by avoiding junior hires and putting more headcount in less restrictive countries. A few jobs ago our mobile dev team was in an EU country with significant protections against firing people. Their interview process involved a take-home problem that would have easily taken 80-100 hours, more with polish. I coul…

That doesn’t really pass the smell test. Countries with employment protections still have probation periods during which the company can fire you without hassle. For example in Germany 6 months is a common duration. https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/probezeit If you cannot evaluate an employee’s worth in 6 months that’s pretty problematic.

Some bosses don’t love firing people and give people too much of a chance. We hired someone and I told the boss to fire him the first day, he was that bad. He didn’t, time dragged on and he never improved, he only got worse in new and spectacular ways. By the time it reached a breaking point it had been well over a year and they had to do a ton of paper work, track performance, give him a PIP… so many hoops. I think he ended up working for us for 3 years. We even caught him red handed lying to skip out on work, and his lie to HR to cover it up involved him using company equipment to run a side business during work hours (somehow they didn’t see that as a red flag). This was I the US, where when I was hired I was told flat out they could fire me with no notice and no reason. The company was always worried about lawsuits around firing people, so they liked to have all their ducks in a row.

It seems like it could be easy to make it through 6 months unless the company takes it really seriously.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees are equally free to "screw over" companies by terminating their employment at any time; at-will is a two-way street. That seems like a fair and faithful manifestation of a free market. Health care and insurance is also available without an employer, at least in the US.

Yup individual employees are definitely on equal footing with companies and health care is very affordable when purchased individually. The free market is very good and fair and everything is going just fine!

You are free to create your own asymmetrically powerful business entity to rebalance the odds, if you find them unfair.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#74

Possibly stupid question - why are so many companies laying off? According to Wallstreet, the majority of the recession scare isn't a scare. Inflation, while not fully at target, is getting better. Unemployment is at an all time low. So many companies are laying off like it's the worst times ahead. Obviously layoffs aren't taken lightly so there must be some internal signals that really push them to take these measur…

high interest rates increase cost to service debt

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#75
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Animals eat each other. They feed other animals. They spread seeds to propagate plant life. Their decomposing bodies fertilize the earth. There is an ecosystem that exists. Humans don’t have any predators. We’ve created a society where everyone feels entitled to exist. Animals don’t feel entitled to exist. They fight daily to survive. We fight daily to play the game that us humans created. It’s not real, it’s all f…

These things you mention are honestly more examples of fabricated concepts. Are you a religious person by chance?

The term "socially constructed" is well-understood by many, including myself. Your use of "fabricated concepts" is not clear, however. Care to define it?

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#76
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Animals eat each other. They feed other animals. They spread seeds to propagate plant life. Their decomposing bodies fertilize the earth. There is an ecosystem that exists. Humans don’t have any predators. We’ve created a society where everyone feels entitled to exist. Animals don’t feel entitled to exist. They fight daily to survive. We fight daily to play the game that us humans created. It’s not real, it’s all f…

These things you mention are honestly more examples of fabricated concepts. Are you a religious person by chance?

> These things you mention are honestly more examples of fabricated concepts. Are you a religious person by chance?

If you are trying to insult me, you should stop that behavior.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#77
post #62

Possibly stupid question - why are so many companies laying off? According to Wallstreet, the majority of the recession scare isn't a scare. Inflation, while not fully at target, is getting better. Unemployment is at an all time low. So many companies are laying off like it's the worst times ahead. Obviously layoffs aren't taken lightly so there must be some internal signals that really push them to take these measur…

I'm also interested in the responses to your questions, but I would ask something else: are non-tech companies also doing layoffs? I'm not in the US so I'm not really up to date to that.

My impression is that the tech layoffs are entirely related to Covid overhiring, VC money drying up with high interest rates, greed and wanting to get share prices up, and finally removing useless departments like Elon did with twitter.

I am not seeing any similar layoffs in other industries, some may be slowing down but mine seems normal.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#78

I hate this so much. I once worked at a place that did a layoff and caught a person who’d been a two-time intern and had just been hired out of college that same week . There’s no reason the company couldn’t have re-assigned her elsewhere. She’d already proven her value! What a waste to throw away the opportunity for a known-good new hire who could ramp up quickly, and what a horrible thing to inflict on someone just…

Not the corporations, the Fed. The Fed introduces high correlation, compels outsized urgency and economic volatility, and directly sets unemployment targets.

The Fed doesn't compel, greed compels and the Fed just gives the greedy the signposts they want.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#79
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Animals eat each other. They feed other animals. They spread seeds to propagate plant life. Their decomposing bodies fertilize the earth. There is an ecosystem that exists. Humans don’t have any predators. We’ve created a society where everyone feels entitled to exist. Animals don’t feel entitled to exist. They fight daily to survive. We fight daily to play the game that us humans created. It’s not real, it’s all f…

These things you mention are honestly more examples of fabricated concepts. Are you a religious person by chance?

There are well-developed branches of ethics that are uncoupled from any religious assumptions. Including systems of ethics that reject various forms of moral relativism.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#80

Hey this is very similar to my story 2 years ago! (different company) It's only going to get worse, but protip: if you don't want to deal with the interview circuit like I did, set your salary expectations hilariously low and at least you will still collect income. Good luck to everyone in our shoes!

When hiring, I'm suspicious of qualified people with low income expectations, I don't think this is a winning strategy personally and I'd take this advice with a grain of salt.
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