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Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

latimes.com

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Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#71

Post by itsoktocry »

lupusreal wrote: post #70
hansvm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US that's still crazy exciting. Most of my hikes (at least, before I moved to the Bay), I'd rarely be within a 3h jog of the closest place a chopper could land, and that's assuming you have a satphone or something to actually contact the outside world. Plus, in a ton of states, driving is a privilege, not a right. I've lost my license a few times after the judge in question said I was justified but some bureau…

> Plus, in a ton of states, driving is a privilege, not a right. I've lost my license a few times A few times? How on earth have you been so unlucky? They won't take your license away just for speeding, let alone to a hospital, and even if that happened once to somebody I can't imagine it happening 'a few times' to a single person. Sorry to be blunt, but were you driving drunk?

This was my reaction as well.

The only people I've ever known to have lost their license were either drunk driving or speeding excessively (ie 35mph+ over the posted speed limit).

How do you innocently lose your license on multiple occassions?

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#72

Post by liamwire »

cf1241290841 wrote: post #3
rurp wrote: post #2

It's unclear to me how much damage the pill prevents versus simply delaying it. I didn't see any clear statements on that in the article and there are a few quotes like, "intended to at least buy victims enough time to get to the hospital." If victims still need anti-venom to prevent serious injury then the drug is much less exciting. As the article points out anti-venom treatments are expensive, unreliable, and hard…

Delaying is already massive seeing as you often cant take anti-venom with you due to refrigeration needs. That delay is likely enough to get you to a clinic. For the cost aspects, as India has shown life saving generics for people who couldnt afford it anyway are always an option. edit: Its also worth mentioning that the "accessible by drone" aspect to reduce treatment times is rarely possible in the rain forests whe…

Even if antivenom was stable at room temperature, that’s far from the only reason you can’t take it with you. Administration challenges, identifying the snake correctly and i.e. the right antivenom to use, variation in doses needed—which may well be multiple vials, the list goes on.

Further, even with antivenom administered, a person is likely to experience a range of side effects and symptoms that would be life threatening emergencies even in if they were inside an ICU, let alone out in the field. Without the compliment of an equipped medical professional and supportive care, antivenom may well do more harm than good in the immediate aftermath of envenomation.

Far better to get the person out of harms way and follow your local first aid procedure for snakebites. In Australia for example, that’s the pressure immobilisation technique, but in other countries it’ll depend on the venom in question. Rattlesnake venom is often necrotising and a tourniquet may cause more harm. Anything that buys more time is key.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#73

Post by femto »

m0zzie wrote: post #41
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That site left too much to the imagination as to how they collect the spider venom. Or is it from a dissection to collect the entire venom containing organ? Was also smirking that the snake venom collection the visuals were either of a person wearing no gloves or easily punctured latex.

They antagonise the funnel-web until it begins striking and the venom is dripping from its fangs, and then they use a liquid dropper to suck that venom up. It is wild. Here's a video of the place near where I live doing it: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tN-mHIXoXlQ

And here's a video of them milking the snakes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JDwMDlcBhE

It's nuts. Hats off to Zac the snake handler.

Stats from the video: 1 vial of antivenom requires 20 milkings. Worst case, a treatment requires 10 vials. This is part of the reason antivenom is expensive. Seeing this process, one can appreciate the attraction of a manufactured pill.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#74

Post by dghughes »

I don't know about snakebites but recently I read about a man who ate a Destroying Angel mushroom by mistake. He was given an antidote for the toxin which amazed that me such a thing existed. I wonder how similar if at all amatoxin and snakebite venom are? One is venom and one is a poison so maybe not much.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/29/health/mushrooms-poisoning-fo...

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#76

Post by ovi256 »

dghughes wrote: post #74

I don't know about snakebites but recently I read about a man who ate a Destroying Angel mushroom by mistake. He was given an antidote for the toxin which amazed that me such a thing existed. I wonder how similar if at all amatoxin and snakebite venom are? One is venom and one is a poison so maybe not much. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/29/health/mushrooms-poisoning-fo...

Even for snake venom, the antidote is species specific.

My guess is mycotoxins couldn't be more different - mushrooms are from a different kingdom of life altogether and don't share much physiology.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#77

Post by unnouinceput »

Quote: "In a 2013 experiment conducted with a team of anesthesiologists in a research laboratory at UC San Francisco, Lewin allowed himself to be paralyzed with derivative of curare, a chemical typically administered intravenously as a paralyzing agent for surgical procedures.

Moments later, he said, “I couldn’t talk, felt dizzy and had trouble breathing.”

The team then administered the nasal spray, and within 20 minutes Lewin had recovered."

So it's a nasal spray, not a pill. Also a pill would take longer to be metabolized leaving the venom to do its damage longer. I'd say nasal spray or inhaler is the way to go. Or better, an epipen.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#78

Post by keepamovin »

It's amazing to watch evolution create a biochemical cocktail that substitutes for all the power snakes lose by being limbless slithering rubber hose animals.

If you can condense all the bodily and kinesthetic intelligence and capability that humans (or say Belgian Malamutes) have developed in a single biochemical cocktail that would effectively pay off the tech debt of dispensing with limbs and power...it's pretty incredible to see what that looks like.

Not wishing it on anybody, but a pretty badass way to go out: Felled. By...evolution.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#79

Post by southernplaces7 »

dghughes wrote: post #74

I don't know about snakebites but recently I read about a man who ate a Destroying Angel mushroom by mistake. He was given an antidote for the toxin which amazed that me such a thing existed. I wonder how similar if at all amatoxin and snakebite venom are? One is venom and one is a poison so maybe not much. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/29/health/mushrooms-poisoning-fo...

As I’m mowing the ditch, I go by them three or four times, and I’m like, ‘Man, those look good,’ ” the 55-year-old said, closing his eyes as he remembers the day.

For generations, the Hickman family has foraged for mushrooms. Unlike his great-grandparents, who had to study which ones were safe to eat, Hickman thought he had an advantage: He pulled out his smartphone, photographed the fungi and uploaded the image to a plant identifier.

I can't even begin to fathom how someone would think this was a remotely smart idea. Trusting a photo identification algorithm on some random fuck-knows identifier based on your possibly badly composed phone photos, all because "man those look good".. Mind boggling.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#80

Post by QuarterReptile »

echelon wrote: post #29
hansvm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was told in the military that snakes cant bite through a regular army boots. Maybe... I definitely stepped on a honey locust thorn in boots tougher than standard army issue and had it pierce the bottom of the boot, my foot, and the top of the boot. Rattlensake teeth have different geometry and force profiles, so they might not penetrate, but I wouldn't want to prove that fact in person.

> honey locust thorn > pierce the bottom of the boot, my foot, and the top of the boot Oh dear god. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_locust#/media/File:Honey... > These thorns are thought to have evolved to protect the trees from browsing Pleistocene megafauna Did your foot heal alright?

Wikipedia reports that those thorns are (or have been) sometimes used as nails!

Come to think of it, I have no idea how a snake fang's construction compares to that of wood... Is there an expert on that lurking here?

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