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"That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

joethepeacock.blogspot.co.uk

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Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#71
It was the same for me in Fiji. I was into comics, computers, video games and not rugby. In Fiji, not liking rugby instantly makes you an outcast. 7 years later and I'm no better. All that loneliness led to insecurities that I have yet to shake. Now I work in a studio with a bunch of designers, photographers and on occasion, models and I feel as lonely as ever.

Hopefully in 10 years I can belong to a studio of amazingly weird, relatable people.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#72

I like the article, a lot. But I have some reserve with the advice given. In my experience, many people would actually be glad to hangout with someone weird if he gives them some time to get used to it, and take it easy on the weirdness at first. I consider myself weird (my weirdness is that I mostly don't give a shit about conventional thinking and politically correct things. I just love a good argument, to the poin…

I'm with you right up to that part about not homeschooling your kids (homeschool dad here). But I'll let it go since I think you may just be trying to provoke an argument. :)

(Unless you've homeschooled, I don't think you have any idea how much social interaction homeschool kids can get; we don't just sit at home all day.)

Edit: I see comments below on homeschooling and from homeschoolers. Our kids get a ton of social interaction outside the home: homeschool co-ops/events/park days with other homeschoolers, language lessons, sports (karate, soccer, equestrian), music lessons, girlscouts/boyscouts, university outreach programs, town provided activities (acting, choir, pottery, etc), temple, playing with all the neighborhood kids, and that's just off the top of my head.

My kids are 9 and 11 right now and are way more comfortable socially, and better at it, than I (public school) ever was.

Ultimately I think a lot of it has to do with the kids and the parents. We chose to homeschool our kids because we think we can do a better job with their education, but it certainly hasn't hindered them socially.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#73
post #17
post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

While I understand your point of view based on this one observation, I think this is a terrible idea if you look at the big picture. Whether they get bullied or not, high school is an extremely important time for kids to gain social skills and learn how to deal with people. Dealing with people is one of the most important skills you can have, period. And that often means dealing with people that are being dicks, and…

First of all, high school (for all its positives and negatives--and there are plenty of positives) is NOT the real world. Schools are the only places where there is such a high concentration of like-aged and experienced people. They are, especially in the U.S., carefully fabricated and constructed environments, often with their own sets of rules and regulations different from what one would expect any place else. (You need to raise your hand and ask permission to go to the bathroom? Someone can torment and bully you with impunity and its your own responsibility to learn to "deal" with it?)

Second, homeschoolers interact with many different kinds of people all of the time. Our kids play in community ensembles, participate in non-school sporting leagues, attend music and theater performances (during the day!), and experience the world with us in general. They have close friends their own age and younger and older.

The "home" and the "school" in homeschool is misleading. Many of us spend significant parts of our days out of the home. And to us (and I think to many other readers here) "school" is not synonymous with "learn". A school is a building or an institution. People don't learn because they are "in school", they learn because they want to (or need to, I guess).

We treat our own homeschooled kids as if they are, well, just people. My job as a parent is to provide for them (love, shelter, food, space--I'm an angel investor) and their job is to explore, learn, grow, adapt, think, do.

For us this works better without an institution involved.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#74

The sentiment of the article is great, but a lot of it just doesn't quite ring true. When the auther starts going on about other people being losers, and him being a winner, because they do things he doesn't personally value, you start to wonder if he is really free from defining himself in contrast to the guys who excluded him years ago. Life isn't a competition like that. There's a classic transformation you see a…

This is basically what I wanted to point out. And please understand I intend this to build up the community, not to tear down the author of the post.

"It's not me that's weird, it's them" is the wrong path to self-esteem. Really, it's a form of retaliation, and it's dangerous. If you categorize people who aren't like you as "weird" and write them off, then you are acting the same as those who are bullying you. The solution to bullying cannot be bullying the bullies.

I understand that when the author says, "There's nothing wrong with you. There's something wrong with them," his emphasis is on the first part. But the second part isn't necessary at all. And in fact, it's a dangerous attitude to have.

"Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#75
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the fact that he speaks fondly of him outside of that line, I assumed he was being facetious and playing off the common social view of furries as loner weirdos. Not that that makes it okay, but I don't think it was meant to be harmful.

I chalk it up to the fact that what’s perfectly normal within a group of friends can seem harsh from the outside. He’s probably just accustomed to making jokes like that with Jay, so sees no issue putting it on his blog.

"Perfectly normal within friends."

What is perfectly normal within friends can still be unwanted, even if it was okay at first. It's why I don't like to encourage jokey insults like this any more. Sure at first I was okay with homophobic comments, but after a while it turns from being playful with friends into hurtful and annoying.

I definitely agree with StavrosK, it does feel very off to me.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#76
post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

I went to big public schools. I was valedictorian, a big geek, complete social misfit, bullied mocked and occasionally beaten, and I'm still a fan of public schools. Those social challenges were the most important lessons. Sometimes I have to make nice, sometimes the group of bullies aren't all jerks, sometimes I need to treat them as individuals, always I need to look for their motivations, sometimes they are even somewhat right and I'm in the wrong even if I don't agree with their method of resolving the dispute. The public school environment exposed me to the most different groups of folks available and made us all interact.

Even in technical jobs and working for programming firms, my bosses and coworkers have included a lot more of the folks I never got along with than the folks I identified with, there are just more of them out there in the world, and I am glad I have a clue why they don't like some things and what I can do to minimize or handle the conflicts.

It's probably not for everyone - it takes a fair bit of personal motivation to still learn when it clearly isn't strictly required of you - but it isn't automatically bad.

At the age when it would have mattered, I would not have had the wisdom to make the right choice. If my parents had offered me the chance to not deal with my problems, I would have jumped at it, and been worse for that choice.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#77
post #55

Nice, that will help him alot. As somebody from Europe, we always see these typical American High Schools and think it can really be like this. Sure they overdo it in movies but I have read a fair amount of blogpost and reddit comments that discribe the same problem. There is grouping and groupe think too in Schools here but not in the same extrem way. It could be selection bios on my part but lets look at the diffre…

I was talking with my neighbor (a second grade teacher) about this over the weekend. I think there are two problems: first, everybody is lumped into the same groupings, so the "advanced" kids are bored and the "slower" kids are lost. That leads to conflict on its own, but then we make it worse by expecting everybody to go college track with one other option: drop out.

For many kids, the college track education is worthless. My neighbor believes she can spot kids who are likely to drop out in second grade (there is a LOT of confirmation bias in that, I'm sure, but probably some truth). By making them all move ahead lock-step, we are, ironically, guaranteeing they are going to fragment and have problems.

It is encouraging to see some signs of change in education (at least here in Utah). There are a lot more trade options (ability to get a CNA in high school or starting apprenticeships in trades, for example). The math program is being re-built in an attempt to change it from "this grade learns algebra, so if you aren't learning algebra in this grade, you are dumb". On the flip side, my kids' high school has partnered with the local state university to provide kids with the ability to have an associates degree by the time they graduate high school.

So while education has been broken for a long time, and is still bad, at least anecdotally, it is getting better. The factory training ground aspect is changing, but, unfortunately, the authoritarian part is still getting worse (see, for instance, the six year old who was arrested for throwing a tantrum).

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#78
post #19

Is this a US thing? In Ukraine, no-one is weird. No-one is a geek, or a nerd -- there aren't even equivalent words in our language. Nobody thinks less of you if you're smart, shy, or talk about transistors on occasion. There are no "popular kids", and even the scariest kid in school is not a bully. So, again, what is wrong with US schools?

There is "ботан" in Russian (pejorative version of "nerd") http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/ботаник

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#80

I like the article, a lot. But I have some reserve with the advice given. In my experience, many people would actually be glad to hangout with someone weird if he gives them some time to get used to it, and take it easy on the weirdness at first. I consider myself weird (my weirdness is that I mostly don't give a shit about conventional thinking and politically correct things. I just love a good argument, to the poin…

Provoking people is never good. I'm a little 'weird' too and I too have to watch what I say and do. I've given a good deal of thought to this 'weirdness' and have my own conclusions about true normal which partly align with this article.

Now, some things people do, say and are actually are a bit odd and perhaps not good. We need to change. Labelling one's self as weird isn't a pass to do whatever the hell you want. I've learnt that. If we excuse ourselves we then have to allow others to excuse themselves resulting in wonderfully horrible circles of selfishness, everywhere. Everyone needs to improve—to see what's bad and change for, again, there are things that simply are bad. The good things, improve them too.

The selfish relativity of the modern island is a sham that's going to collapse on the heads of those followers soon enough. We people seek to understand others, that is when things change. Unfortunately, like how Asimov wrote in his Foundation novels that there only really ever was one person who understood this (Hari Seldon), it doesn't happen often.

I was talking with a friend, a girl, in the car after we did some shopping and I made an effort to open the door for her. She said that someone had once said to her to never bother with someone who didn't do that and that person was quite vehement in his advice. I suggested perhaps not to disregard that person forever but perhaps to view it as a wonderful opportunity to teach and help someone.

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