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US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

theguardian.com

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Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#71

Post by legitster »

dfxm12 wrote: post #54
vsskanth wrote: post #2

This is surprising because gas cooking is considered a "premium" feature here in NC, and people look for it during their house search. Personally, it is a better cooking experience than electric. Induction might be the best, but it's still expensive.

As the article says, gas cooking is poor for our health & the environment. Utility firms have to fight against buyers who are getting more educated about this, along with stricter codes also informed by this knowledge. At some level, you have to decide where you want to be on the axis between your cooking experience & your child's health (if that's a concern in your situation). If you feel induction is too expensive,…

The correlation between gas and children's asthma is pretty weak. And there are already existing correlations between gas usage and cold climates, and cold climates and children's asthma.

There are also strong correlations between electricity in the home and harm to children, but anyone in their reasonable mind would understand that you can improve consumer protections. So it's a bit of whataboutism to imply that only gas users are making safety tradeoffs.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#72

Post by brendoelfrendo »

hasty_pudding wrote: post #9
bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

Your place may have an extremely underpowered gas stove? Tons of places do stir fry on gas. Probably the norm I would say. If you go to a hibachi grill, they're doing it right out in the open.

A home gas stove in the US will probably make around 10k BTUs. Some have burners designed for high heat cooking that might go over 20k BTUs. Your average wok burner used for stir frying in a restaurant is going to be over 100k BTUs, possibly 200k. To be clear, you can do a tasty stir fry over lower heat; but realize that the commercial wok burners are specialized equipment, and any home gas stove will be underpowered by comparison.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#73

Post by legitster »

bob1029 wrote: post #65
legitster wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An electric heat pump by nature has a lot more parts. A gas furnace is just a few sensors, a burner, a fan, and a box to do it in.

> a fan I think you might be underestimating the # of components in a modern furnace.

I'm intentionally being reductive, but I have worked on several furnaces and gas furnaces are an order of magnitude simpler than their respective heat pump.

... gas furnace + A/C compressor is another story.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#74

Post by Kirby64 »

travisb wrote: post #53
buggeryorkshire wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, when I replaced my crap electric hob with induction I literally sent a video to my mum boiling a pan of water to show how crazy fast it was. I'm in the UK though, maybe it's something to do with having 230v supply?

No, in North America all electric hobs are 240v often 30 amp (sometime higher). With cooking it's all about efficiency of heat transfer, latency of power change, and flexibility of pan lifting between the three types of hobs (electric resistive, induction, gas). The efficiency of electric resistive and gas is poor, induction is great. The latency of power change of electric resistive is poor, induction and gas are gr…

The standard electric hob in North America is powered by a NEMA 14-50 outlet which can provide 240V 50A, actually. Really high end ranges use 60A outlets. 30A outlets are typically used for electric dryers.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#75

Post by legitster »

Kirby64 wrote: post #70
legitster wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like the heavy grates though. Some of my recipes require me to really go to town on heavy cast iron pots and pans. Busting a glass top is a real bummer. In such cases it's almost better to have the old-school electric burners (there's a reason apartments almost never have a "nice" glass range).

Are you… dropping cast iron cookware on the stove? I don’t know any recipe that would require some movement that would damage a glass cooktop. Cast iron cookware seems to scratch glass tops over time, but that doesn’t seem to crack or damage them (unless you drop something on it, of course).

I've got a large 15lb enamel dutch oven. If I am doing any sort of speedy operation where I have to scrape off crusted ingredients, I might do some real clattering about. I have some real good chicken curry recipes where I do this.

It's also worth noting that certain things like home canning might actually void the warranty of your glass cooktop. The extreme weight put on them during the process can actually put more pressure on the layers than they can handle. Older canning equipment might not even be compatible with the flat surface.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#76

Post by snapplebobapple »

bwb wrote: post #5
vsskanth wrote: post #2

This is surprising because gas cooking is considered a "premium" feature here in NC, and people look for it during their house search. Personally, it is a better cooking experience than electric. Induction might be the best, but it's still expensive.

That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years. I heard similar but when i dug into it appeared to be bunk… i cook on electric now and love it.

As someone who cooks quite a lot, it's not propaganda. Induction has 2 minor/moderate annoyances vs gas: It gets low temp by varying the time the burner is on full and heating diminishes rapidly if the pan isn't in close contact with the element. The former can be super annoying in some situations (i.e. making a sauce) as the sauce boils for a second, then gets too cold non stop. The latter can be a big problem if your pans warp even a bit (i.e. most non cast iron pans) or if you are basting.

That being said, I currently cook on induction at home because the annoyances above have work arounds/mitigations and the cleanup/ lack of heating the room of induction vs gas is worth more to me than not being annoyed sometimes. I don't like the pressure to get rid of this stuff, it should be individual choice depending on your own personal situation.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#77

Post by RetpolineDrama »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #76
bwb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years. I heard similar but when i dug into it appeared to be bunk… i cook on electric now and love it.

As someone who cooks quite a lot, it's not propaganda. Induction has 2 minor/moderate annoyances vs gas: It gets low temp by varying the time the burner is on full and heating diminishes rapidly if the pan isn't in close contact with the element. The former can be super annoying in some situations (i.e. making a sauce) as the sauce boils for a second, then gets too cold non stop. The latter can be a big problem if yo…

>it should be individual choice depending on your own personal situation.

Your average individual is completely unequipped to make an informed decision on this topic. They have no idea their crappy gas stove is spewing high volumes of carcinogens and other nasty things into their kitchen.

We do the same thing for toys, my wife should be able to buy my child a toy at the store without having to bring an XRF gun to look for lead paint. Everything in the store should be safe by default. If you want to make a difference _at scale_ that's how you do it.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#78

Post by RetpolineDrama »

vsskanth wrote: post #16
bwb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years. I heard similar but when i dug into it appeared to be bunk… i cook on electric now and love it.

I don't know about your specific circumstances but for Indian cooking, gas is just miles ahead. We have electric at home, It just takes forever to cook anything and it's hard to control the heat. Our friends with gas cooktops get done in half the time.

>We have electric at home, It just takes forever to cook anything and it's hard to control the heat.

You like have an under-powered resistance range. A proper 240v 60A circuit powered induction range will out-heat any residential gas range and do it with laser-like precision.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#79

Post by RetpolineDrama »

legitster wrote: post #62
NewJazz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. That is indeed a sucky experience. The only thing induction doesn't do well is cooking with things like woks, where you have a curved surface that you want to heat evenly.

Or any large pot or pan. Gas heat distributes heat nicely across the bottom and sides of any size pot you put on it. Even rectangular pans and dishes. Even an old school electric is better in this regard than an induction top. If you lay a big cast iron pan across your induction top (which you wouldn't want to to begin with) it will literally only heat up the molecules directly above your biggest burner. So while an…

>Gas heat distributes heat nicely across the bottom and sides of any size pot you put on it.

And leaded gasoline made poorly-dimensioned combustion chambers run better/not knock. We still banned it for good reasons.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#80

Post by RetpolineDrama »

wharvle wrote: post #32
ska wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That might be a bit of propaganda Not really, there are a number of techniques that are harder (some not possible) on electric which has less control and high latency. But ... it only matters if you are going to use such techniques.

I can’t even cook scrambled eggs well on resistive electric. I mean, I can , but they won’t come out as good and there’s a much higher likelihood I’ll ruin them. Delicate sauces? Getting a custard to come together just right? Maybe some people can, but me, forget about it. This is basic stuff, too, I don’t even know how to do anything fancy. I know that when I finally tried gas it was like “oh, I can cook now!” Toast…

Induction is faster, more precise, more efficient/green, safer, and most importantly not spewing toxic crap into your kitchen/living room where you presumably spend time with your family/children.

Even with an externally-vented vent hood (most dump back into the room) + make up air system (that most do not have) gas ranges still contaminate your kitchen.

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