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Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

ec.europa.eu

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Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#71

Post by pjc50 »

RandomLensman wrote: post #65
pjc50 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European free speech legal infrastructure dates from the ECHR in 1950, and was somewhat imposed by the Allies after the war. As well as a lot of people who wanted to avoid having populist incitement to genocide again.

The limits on free speech in European countries are also much older in parts. The history in Europe on that topic is just very different from the US, I'd say.

Indeed. People forget that e.g. Portugal, Greece, and Spain were dictatorships until the 70s, and that a lot of eastern EU was under Communism until 1990s.

"The EU" is not equivalent to "France and Germany", despite what they think.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#73

Post by timeon »

focom wrote: post #26
RandomLensman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing EU specific. Most (all?) European countries have a very different view on freedom of speech than the US.

"Europe 2.0" aka "the usa" has a better free speech implementation than "Europe 1.0". So yes different as in bad.

USA is no Europe nor Rome. "free speech" is vague term.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#74

Post by z7 »

red_trumpet wrote: post #54
jongjong wrote: post #18

The EU government doesn't give a crap about unfair social media algorithms when they benefit their authoritarian agendas (at the expense of citizens) but as soon as soon as the algorithms go against their own agenda, they immediately launch a commission! And, ironically, the algorithms today are less constrained than they've ever been.

You realize that the European Commission[1,2] is a big part of the executive branch of the EU, yeah? (The other one being the european council). So if there is something as an "EU government", it is the commission. [1] https://commission.europa.eu/index_en [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission

The European Commission is not elected by EU citizens btw.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#75

Post by lapinot »

pseudo0 wrote: post #58

Just pull out of the EU. It's overtly hostile to freedom of speech. Run Twitter from the US, and let the EU erect their own "Great Firewall" if they want to block it. F500s (or at least the ones still advertising) can pay for ads through their US subsidiaries, and the handful of remaining Twitter employees in Europe can either take a relocation package or severance.

How is fighting against dark patterns, opaque and arbitrary moderation decisions (among other things) an attack on (your very american conception of) free speech?

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#77

Post by gwervc »

RandomLensman wrote: post #63
jongjong wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's the job of EU government to manipulate the algorithms to suit their values. Their job is the opposite of that; to ensure that the algorithms operate with as little manipulation as possible so that every individual has equal voice/reach on these platforms (at least equal on a per-follower basis) with as little manipulation as possible. As someone who didn't have much prejudice about the current Isra…

The EU as well as nation states have laws to uphold and policy/social objectives that might require that. The way to change that is to change laws, customs, and objectives. You are welcome to push down that route, of course.

> You are welcome to push down that route, of course.

Of course not, precisely because public speech including on media such as twitter is heavily censored.

The trick is gross but effective: treat ideas threatening to the system as illegal so they can be fought using the legal system instead of the political one. It's a power grab to silence Europeans. Same old trick used in China, Iran, any autocracy really.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#78

Post by fallingknife »

tephra wrote: post #60
fallingknife wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, specifically that people shouldn't have it.

This is just wrong. In many EU countries the free speech protections are quite extensive (and some of us live in countries that have protected speech longer than the U.S have been around).

You can have a government that can punish you for saying things it doesn't like, or you can have freedom of speech. And here is your own high court proving that you don't https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/calling-muhammad-paedo...

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#80

Post by troupo »

kypro wrote: post #50
rsynnott wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bloody hell, that was an _example of a Tweet that they were okay with, in training material_?!

If you're critical of X allowing people to recite jokes about the holocaust, how do you feel about Netflix platforming similar jokes about genocides? ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJurYs12ay4 ) Do you feel some jokes are too offensive to be said? Do you feel the EU/UK are correct in their stance that offensive (aka hateful) jokes should be illegal?

"It was just a joke" isn't a legal defence when inciting hatred and violence. It's not legal even in the US (though IANAL).

Context matters.

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