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Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

bentasker.co.uk

71–80 of 151 posts

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#71

I don't think the conclusions presented are true. It seems to be a pretty "standard" case of theft that, unfortunately, yes these things often take time to resolve. And all of the "analysis" is just speculation. Does it suck that it took extra messages for the return to be acknowledged, and extra weeks for the refund to finally get approved and go through? For sure. Does this mean "Amazon has an honesty issue"? No. D…

Trying to shortcut the process by filing a chargeback isn't going to help anything. You only do that if Amazon ultimately denies the return.

Maybe - but as he correctly mentions, in the UK, he's effectively buying the console from American Express because they gave him credit for it.

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#72
> and have even contested credit card charge-backs.

Personally, I'd never do a CC chargeback against certain companies. Too much risk of being cut off from a crucial vendor by a "customers who do chargebacks aren't worth the trouble" automation/SOP.

(For household consumer issues... if customer service was exhausted, I'd escalate to the CEO's office "?" email address, and if even that didn't work, but I really needed it solved, I'd consult a lawyer about whether they could negotiate a solution with a letter or phone call.)

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#73
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon's market cap soared when profits were negative. Amazon was building up reputation, logistics, and customer relations. As far as I can tell, they've been torching all of that long-term value for about the past three years. That's a huge loss of value.

When were profits negative? AFAIK Amazon.com may lose money but AWS more than makes up for it. Amazon.com is a long game to monopolize retail logistics , which they are just now starting to offer as a service to other retailers, meaning Amazon.com is of less importance.

Amazon was losing money for nearly the first decade of its existence. It was a bit of a laughing stock among the traditional business community: "Lose money on every sale, but make it up in volume!" The loses were considered astronomical at the time; in 2000, it lost over a billion dollars.

The strategy was the right one, though. To put all of that in perspective, in 2018, it earned over 10 billion, and many businesses have since followed the Amazon model.

It's sort of a classic case study in business schools now.

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#74

Fwiw...this reminded me I had a package ($90) not show up this week. I used their completely automated system and got refunded in 5 minutes. Message even says "if you find the package you can keep it." I think you need a lot of examples to draw any conclusions and self-reporting is going to be almost entirely negative experiences.

I have had some amazing experiences with Amazon CS, but mostly meh ones. Usually I have to spend 10-20 mins sorting out an issue that was not my fault (package never arrived, return never arrived at their warehouse after I dropped it at UPS), and at most they give a $5 credit for the trouble.

But then there was one time where I literally got hundreds of dollars in refunds for a screw up on their end. I didn’t even ask for it — their guy volunteered it and I couldn’t believe he was serious. But he was: he refunded me for a dozen or so purchases to make up for one (expensive) item that was delayed past a birthday that it was supposed to be for. I got the item for free, and then some.

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#75

Someone stole am Xbox. I'm not sure it's Amazon.

I think it’s about high time that Amazon disrupts the “leave it on the porch” method. Too many packages are stolen by thieves. And I mean, they’ve already started to some extend to deal with it. There are many cities I’ve been to that has Amazon delivery boxes where you can pick up your stuff. I think that when drones get powerful enough, and regulation allows it, Amazon will adopt drone delivery everywhere. You get…

They have no idea how to disrupt last mile delivery without corruption and theft. They’ve tried. My apartment building’s doorbox has Amazon Key, such that drivers have the ability to let themselves in and drop off packages in a secure area. I’ve confirmed with one of the better Amazon delivery drivers that it works like a charm.

The vast majority of them don’t (think/care to) use it. At this point I’m actually glad, lest they let themselves into the secure area and steal other packages.

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#76
This isn't just an Amazon problem. I requested a refund from Expedia because their search listed a hotel from another state with a city by the same name when I made a specific city & state search. Their search functionality clearly had a bug and we reserved a hotel in the wrong city. Upon realizing this an hour later we phoned Expedia who told us to phone the hotel; when we talked to the hotel the person that answered said only a manager could refund my purchase and to call in the morning. When I called in the morning the manager told me they held the room for me so I had to pay for it anyway. I realized that I had been gaslit, willingly, but the people who worked there. I talked to Expedia who offered me a partial refund, which I refused. I called my credit card company and they filed a dispute, eventually citing that I'd had several successful bookings with Expedia before (totally unrelated to my case).

To me, the issue is that credit card companies no longer exist to protect and defend consumers the way they used to. They're deep in the pockets of vendors, massaging their backs for a kick of the churn. There's room here for a very heavy handed, national agency in each country that makes these companies lives hell when they lie or drag their feet.

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#77

Amazon took something like 30 days to deliver me an iPad (Pro, so $900) that was supposed to be “Prime” delivered. I asked them to cancel the order after seven days, and repeatedly asked them to cancel, but they wouldn’t. They seem to follow the old Ferengi adage of “Once you have their money, you never give it back” Edit: I returned it for a refund, but was out a decent amount do money for a while.

Were they the shipper or seller? I can understand them saying they can’t cancel the order midstream, but once it’s been over a week from the order time, they can’t exactly stand by that default rule. You can’t take someone’s money and leave them with nothing for a month.

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#78
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Postal inspectors take this sort of thing very seriously.

Lately I've been seeing comments like this surprisingly often, but my firsthand experience tells me otherwise.

A relative had mail stolen from an outgoing mailbox. She filed a complaint and was contacted months later when they caught the guy. They found her checks (to charity) in his house. She was shocked to hear back so much later. Apparently they were on the case the whole time, since it was affecting a lot of people.

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#79
I've found my use of Amazon declining over time. Temu has basically replaced lots of consistent small-value buys that I'd go to Amazon for: cables, plastic things, simple tools, kitchen stuff, etc.

High ticket items I usually shop around a lot to get the best deal and that's rarely on Amazon.

And I've found myself buying more and more from independent shops.

Anyone else notice similar trends in their habits?

Re: Amazon Has an Honesty Issue

#80
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had something stolen out of the USPS system. I don't know whether it was the mailing center or the USPS itself but it disappeared in a way that logically couldn't have been a mistake.

USPS is considered safer, because of federal charges. Some wise people suggested to use priority/express mail, along with insurance, if one wants it more secure in the USPS system.

I have relevant industry experience, and I would advise anyone to never, ever use Priority or Express Mail for a high-value item, under any circumstances. Even with third-party insurance.

Theft is much more likely than with UPS/FedEx overnight services, and it's nearly impossible to arrange the delivery so that the parcel is on camera for its entire journey, something easily accomplished with some other carriers. And if the package lost, prosecution is almost an impossibility, as is therefore recovery.

In the event of a loss, Postal Inspectors are typically useless for pursuing package theft committed by USPS employees, even with very high value because they live in perpetual fear of the APWU (their explanation, not mine). They also hilariously attempt to pass the investigative buck to local authorities, who rightly note that it was a Federal crime committed by a Federal employee on Federal property.

The Postal Inspectors recently had a high-visibility thread on another site that very much overstated their value, and ever since that thread went up that's been the narrative. It's wholly unjustified.

Registered Mail is the only USPS service worth considering for such items, and it's actually incredibly good, and tightly controlled. It's arguably the most secure service of the major carriers, and probably where that recommendation comes from. As bad as the USPS is at delivering everything else securely, they're excellent at getting Registered Mail items where they belong. Insurance up to $50K can be purchased (and sometimes over that amount).

For someone with no experience doing a one-off, high-value shipment, that is what I would strongly recommend. The insurance also comes without the endless hidden caveats one finds with UPS that requires a complex decision tree to validate, or the BTW-it's-not-actually-insurance aspect of FedEx's declarations (for which they'll happily charge).

Third-party insurance services are worth their (very reasonable) cost, but can be difficult for the average person to secure. Services like Brink's enter the picture when you start talking about moving items above that level.

But Priority/Express is the absolute wild west in terms of secure package delivery. Temporary employees working with no oversight, with a union that will reflexively and aggressively defend people even when it's fully aware it's defending criminals (sound familiar?), and unmotivated inspectors. It's a recipe for high rates of package loss, which is exactly what it has.

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