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Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

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Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#71

Post by justinclift »

PedroBatista wrote: post #68
justinclift wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, those are lousy. Even worse though are places like Atlassian, which add a footer to some of their emails like "this email can't be unsubscribed from". Even though it's directly illegal for them to have emails that can't be unsubscribed from. It's their own special "Fuck You!" message to their email recipients.

Their lawyers will argue that’s a transactional email part of the functionality of the app, so they can play fast and loose with legal requirements

I'm not even their customer (and never will be), so not really sure what kind of app functionality they'd be claiming. :/

But the concept of your comment "they're just doing what they want because they reckon they can get away with it" is pretty common among large tech companies.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#72

Post by developer93 »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33
mulmen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the unsubscribe link works I still report spam as spam. If it is unsolicited then it is spam, plain and simple.

I'm very surprised to see you are being downvoted, I was convinced everybody is doing that. Spam is spam, period. Asking me go click on a link that leads somewhere is just a waste of my time - and there are still a few culprits out there who instead of unsubscribing me straight away demand that I log in to "manage my notification preferences"!

Or move your email to a list they can sell on..

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#73

Post by arp242 »

gpderetta wrote: post #66
arp242 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that other 1%[1] is just collateral damage? "Sucks to be you!" Please note they were suggesting that a single email should "blacklist the domain". You are pretty much suggesting the very thing Microsoft is doing here. This is not a serious suggestion in any shape or form. [1]: A number I have serious doubts about by the way, but we'll use it for now.

There is a very simple solution to the collateral damage: don't send anything that can be construed as spam.

Collateral damage is by definition damage to innocents – people who have done nothing wrong.

As I mentioned before, even with the best of intentions people can "construe your email as spam".

People mark emails as spam as "fuck you". Bad support? Spam! Argument with a friend? Spam! Yes, people really do this.

People can abuse your platforms in way you didn't foresee: either an outright security flaw or a "logic flaw" (e.g. one system I worked on the rate-limiter could be bypassed by using Cc, which was of course quickly solved, but people did unfortunately use it to send out spam).

If you have any sort of "sign-up", even if paid only, people will try to abuse it to send spam.

People's computers get hacked, and while botnet spam is less of an issue due to residential ISPs blocking SMTP traffic, abusing the hacked machine's Outlook or whatnot still happens.

There's tons of cases where regular well-intentioned people send out spam. Anyone who claims any different has never seriously worked on any kind of anti-spam system with real-world usage. If this was an easy problem it would be a solved problem, but it's not, because it's a hard problem.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#74

Post by petemir »

danpalmer wrote: post #65
petemir wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a company that sent travel deals newsletters everyday. Deliverability to (then) Hotmail was abysmal. We then got the recommendation of a company (cannot remember their name) that could analyse our IPs and give recommendations. Naturally, the recommendations were the ones that you could find everywhere so they were not useful, but the company did have access to MSFT's score of our IPs, so we could know wh…

Was it "Return Path"? If so, yes, they are just a racket. They ostensibly provide consulting services on this stuff, but in reality they have a (exclusive?) deal with Microsoft to change scores and allowlist, so you just pay them and they get your email through. Pricing is based on volume of email, I think we were paying $10k/yr for our emails to get to Microsoft hosted addresses.

I cannot 100% confirm it but "Return Path" (now Validity) definitely rings a loud bell :), and the figure is also in the ballpark -- we definitely started to send less e-mails just to be able to afford/test them.

I felt outraged at the moment because it was clearly a "pay-to-play" scheme, but ~8 years ago the number of Hotmail/Outlook addresses in my country was definitely substantial. Probably it still is.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#75

Post by smcl »

arp242 wrote: post #28
snitch182 wrote: post #3

My private email server gets completly blocked on regular bases. They are blocking the whole ip-range of my provider. You get no response from them whatsoever. You have to fill out a form und wait a couple of days. You can however sign up for a 200$ whitelist... from a different company owned by guess who.

> They are blocking the whole ip-range of my provider. That's not necessarily unreasonable, depending on which provider that is. Sites like Wikipedia also block entire ranges to prevent spam. Unfortunately sometimes people do get caught up in that (as I did last year).

Didn’t the Wikipedia one just block anonymous contributions from some ip range? As in, you could still sign up, login and contribute?

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#76

Post by gafage »

offices wrote: post #45
piva00 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or some simply do not unsubscribe you. After feeling gaslighted by some spam emails that I was very sure I had unsubscribed from, I started keeping a spreadsheet to track my requests with date, and what link I followed to get removed. Almost 25% of my requests have never been honoured, it's disgusting.

Well, computers are tough. It takes ~31 days to update a database, right?

A database? No, that's instant.

But when you have dozens of databases, each owned by a different company, and they feed off each other perhaps once a day, then you can end up with a long time before all your data is deleted.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#79

Post by 8organicbits »

justinclift wrote: post #57
worksonmine wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your e-mail client loads external images it was already confirmed on open without clicking any link.

Ewww, why would anyone have their client configured to do that? That would be truly idiotic. Personally, my email is text only. It drops all HTML. I prefer it this way. :)

Most clients are configured this way by default. I change it every time I switch.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#80

Post by pulse7 »

Microsoft may be using AI for spam detection and... is - of course - unable to fix it, because you can not debug a neural network (or may need months/years to debug and fix it)... So: WELCOME TO THE NEW WONDERFUL WORLD OF AI where we will not be able to fix things...
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