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Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

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Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#71

Post by physPop »

thenerdhead wrote: post #55
MrGilbert wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it is usually useless to rant about an issue in the first place. In this case, I can see that they were really neutral and understanding in the very first issue. After two years with little to no progress, I'd say it is natural to vent. Especially if they cannot get out of the situation they are in. It looks like the original poster needs to use MAUI in their production environment. So they are already d…

The latter part should really be looked closer at. You cannot simply attach a company’s market capitalization to how funded a team actually is. People constantly overlook that. That’s true at many big tech companies too. The assumption harms just as much as pitchforking.

While true, I think the point is a mismatch between MS business strategy (marketing MAUI and the next big thing and officially supported) while not properly staffing. As an end user, you might make tech decisions precisely becuase of the market cap, assuming support and proper implementation. This fundamentally is the biggest issue with MAUI, no one can trust its not just marketing and going to be dropped...

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#72

Post by physPop »

cristeigabriel wrote: post #41
jiggawatts wrote: post #5

Three decades of experience talking here: If you don't see a vendor like Microsoft using a GUI framework for at least 50% of their new applications, then you've made a terrible mistake in adopting it yourself. Microsoft uses Google's framework for their own applications: Electron. Yes, you heard me right. Microsoft, a nearly 3 trillion dollar company, uses the framework of a competitor for their own desktop applicati…

> Teams: Electron. Not as simple with Preview versions on Windows. I don't think they use Electron whatsoever anymore, and old versions weren't fully Electron either (I remember seeing Chakra [their old JS engine] in the stacktraces, doing some elementary logic), I think it's XAML with UWP + WebView2.

The new teams is react + webview see:

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/...

This to me was the biggest strike against MAUI. Teams team recently decided to switch tech stacks to address poor desktop performance, and explicitly didn't pick MAUI.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#73

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

There are some really nasty bugs in MAUI, which are not even obviously reported by error messages. From my experience:

* You can build MAUI application fine, but you won't be able to deploy it for Windows and run it, unless your repository lives in C:\ drive. And I mean C:\ drive, not substed directory to D:\ not additional drive. C:\somePath\ only. The worst thing is that error which you get is completely ambiguous and does not tell where is a problem.

* You would think that you can bypass requirement above by forcing Visual Studio to deploy on C:\somePath\bin? Yeah that works for Windows, Android but does not work for iOS/MacOS emitters, where somebody automatically assumes that all path are relative. So instead of C:\somePath\bin MacOS/iOS emitters will try to build into D:\PathToMyRepo\C:\somePath\bin , obviously ending with an error.

I think that MAUI is great product and I like the universal outcome (deploy for all major platforms at once), but my god, myriad of stupid bugs is very annoying.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#74

Post by deafpolygon »

physPop wrote: post #72
cristeigabriel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teams: Electron. Not as simple with Preview versions on Windows. I don't think they use Electron whatsoever anymore, and old versions weren't fully Electron either (I remember seeing Chakra [their old JS engine] in the stacktraces, doing some elementary logic), I think it's XAML with UWP + WebView2.

The new teams is react + webview see: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/... This to me was the biggest strike against MAUI. Teams team recently decided to switch tech stacks to address poor desktop performance, and explicitly didn't pick MAUI.

It may be that MAUI wasn't mature enough yet at the time they started working on it.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#75

Post by cristeigabriel »

physPop wrote: post #72
cristeigabriel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teams: Electron. Not as simple with Preview versions on Windows. I don't think they use Electron whatsoever anymore, and old versions weren't fully Electron either (I remember seeing Chakra [their old JS engine] in the stacktraces, doing some elementary logic), I think it's XAML with UWP + WebView2.

The new teams is react + webview see: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/... This to me was the biggest strike against MAUI. Teams team recently decided to switch tech stacks to address poor desktop performance, and explicitly didn't pick MAUI.

Thanks for correcting me!

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#76

Post by deafpolygon »

bob1029 wrote: post #22

We are huge into Microsoft but MAUI is on the no touch list. After maintaining a Blazor (server-side) app for a few years, it has become clear to me that even if the abstractions are ideal, the tooling may cripple the entire experience. I don't trust Visual Studio 2022 to not treat me like a piece of shit in a UI style project anymore. The only project types I really trust to not suck are: class library, console app,…

What UI framework should I be focusing on in 2023? Should I focus on web-based framework (vis-a-vis Electron or similar platform) or is there something more suitable for desktop UI?

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#77

Post by willcipriano »

thenerdhead wrote: post #64
lopatin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the developer is justified in his self-described rant. He has gone through other channels and engaged with the project leaders directly. He has waited years for the bugs to be addressed. Microsoft is in the wrong here for selling this as the future and not dedicating the resources necessary to fulfill that promise.

Maybe they were busy fixing other issues? https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/announcing-dotnet-maui...

If you go to a resturant, order the soup and it's cold do you really give a crap about issues with other menu items that they are resolving instead?

"Yes the soup is cold, but we no longer give people botulism with the salads surely that counts for something"

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#78

Post by LikesPwsh »

ratg13 wrote: post #70
Ecstatify wrote: post #24

We decommissioned all our mobile apps built with Xamarin. Some of the Microsoft teams don't listen to user feedback. We use Azure DevOps, feedback from years ago for basic features still not developed. https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/AzureDevOps

I’ve talked with people at MS that have told me Azure DevOps is no longer in active development. You should start your migration to GitHub actions.

MS don't seem entirely on the same page there. Azure Devops was their first choice for Power BI integration for some reason.

https://ideas.fabric.microsoft.com/ideas/idea/?ideaid=020078...

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#80

Post by rayiner »

Does anyone have the inside scoop on what happened to Microsoft? They were never great in terms of software development, but it seems like they have become completely unable to develop products. Win32 lasted for decades, but I’ve lost count of how many successor frameworks have come and gone. Products like OneNote or Outlook get replaced with new versions that have a fraction of the features and are walruses of bloat. (It’s been years, and “New” Outlook still pops you over to the web to look at your todos.) “New” Teams can’t even keep up with scrolling a large directory listing, when mapping the same share in Windows Explorer results in instant display. This is shit smart high schoolers could do and did back in the day. Microsoft seems to have fallen off a cliff. What happened?
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