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Running Windows 98 in the Browser

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Re: Running Windows 98 in the Browser

#71

Post by M95D »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #29
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but even Windows XP (which handled a lot of the same basic Internet browsing tasks as I still use now!) is almost comically fast on modern hardware. Why is it surprising that an old OS built for late 90's hardware runs "comically fast" on 2020's hardware? Just look at XP system requirements: - Pentium 233-megahertz (MHz) processor or faster (300 MHz is recommended) - At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM (128 MB is reco…

> How would anyone expect that not to be much faster on a modern quad+ core, 4GHz system with 8GB+ RAM? It's not a given. For example, Windows XP may boot faster than 98 or 2K on the same hardware, because XP parallelizes and shortens some hardware initialization steps. (e.g. anything related to the network). Win98 with file sharing spends almost a minute during boot (even from an SSD) just squeaking netbios frames.

> Win98 with file sharing spends almost a minute during boot (even from an SSD) just squeaking netbios frames.

You have a config error in TCP/IP.

Re: Running Windows 98 in the Browser

#72

Post by projektfu »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #64
pjmlp wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only it had a proper UNIX subsystem, instead of something to make DoD happy. That was Microsoft's biggest mistake regarding GNU/Linux adoption. I only cared about Slackware in 1995, because Windows NT POSIX wasn't enough for university work.

Windows Server 2003 with Interix was my daily driver for a few years. That was my "peak Windows" moment. It had a fast UI, could run software meant for XP, and I could compile a ton of POSIX-targeted software.

I always thought that this was vaporware, something that was listed in books and white papers but never seen in the wild. Good that it eventually arrived.

I just used cygwin.

Re: Running Windows 98 in the Browser

#73

Post by candiodari »

paulmooreparks wrote: post #23
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but how is it surprising that an old OS built for late 90's hardware runs fast on 2020's hardware? I'm failing to see the surprise. Isn't it a a given that old SW runs faster on modern HW when you factor in how far HW evolved since then.

What is striking is the fact that the interactions are the same between old and new shells/applications/syscalls/whatever, but modern software on modern hardware feels so much slower. The only reason for this is that modern software is doing a lot more stuff in the nooks and crannies of those interactions that it didn't used to do. Perhaps some of that stuff is useful, but some of it has to be code that is just less…

You'd especially expect latency to have gone down. Instead, latency went up.

Re: Running Windows 98 in the Browser

#74

Post by Amezarak »

blowski wrote: post #27
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but even Windows XP (which handled a lot of the same basic Internet browsing tasks as I still use now!) is almost comically fast on modern hardware. Why is it surprising that an old OS built for late 90's hardware runs "comically fast" on 2020's hardware? Just look at XP system requirements: - Pentium 233-megahertz (MHz) processor or faster (300 MHz is recommended) - At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM (128 MB is reco…

Things I didn't use my 1998 PC for: * realtime collaborative spreadsheet editing * 28 inch high definition monitor * watching movies in HD * playing almost lifelike games * browsing an extremely hostile internet * live backing up all my files * Running large complex scripts on the same machine I can easily carry in one hand * Running an IDE like JetBrains I could go on. We are only doing the "same tasks" if you ignor…

Well, I watched HD video on my 1999 PC, and it worked fine. I had to resize it to fit 1600x1200; I don't know what all is going on behind the scenes to play a 1080p-encoded video in that situation. But it worked great. You don't need moder hardware for HD monitors at all.

> * Running an IDE like JetBrains

We had Visual Studio, which also worked great, and with WinForms was undoubtedly one of the best GUI app development tools of all time.

> * browsing an extremely hostile internet

I did this well into the 2000s, although I was an early Firefox evangelist and mostly used that when it came out, plus eventually NoScript as JS was continually used to enshittify the web.

Re: Running Windows 98 in the Browser

#75

Post by M95D »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #60
blowski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things I didn't use my 1998 PC for: * realtime collaborative spreadsheet editing * 28 inch high definition monitor * watching movies in HD * playing almost lifelike games * browsing an extremely hostile internet * live backing up all my files * Running large complex scripts on the same machine I can easily carry in one hand * Running an IDE like JetBrains I could go on. We are only doing the "same tasks" if you ignor…

Add to that that Windows XP had no antivirus built in, heck it didn't eve ship with a bloody firewall to block incomign connections, so you got immediately pwned the moment you plugged into the internet or a USB drive from school. Then you installed a third party firewall and anti-virus solution and performance went to shit. Yeah, it felt faster than today's equivalent at similar task, but at what cost. If I strip ou…

But that's a plus!

People were educated about cyber-risks in a real-life, non-corporate-bullshit, non-give-me-a-break-eyes-rolling way.

And then they installed Tiny Personal Firewall which was miles better than even current windows' firewall.

Re: Running Windows 98 in the Browser

#76

Post by M95D »

shaunpud wrote: post #48
easywood wrote: post #14

Bonus points for including sheep.exe. That was a welcome trip down memory lane.

I remember the sheep looking more colorful and smaller, but maybe the difference in resolution from experiencing it back in the days

The resolution is not 1:1.

Re: Running Windows 98 in the Browser

#77

Post by FirmwareBurner »

M95D wrote: post #75
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add to that that Windows XP had no antivirus built in, heck it didn't eve ship with a bloody firewall to block incomign connections, so you got immediately pwned the moment you plugged into the internet or a USB drive from school. Then you installed a third party firewall and anti-virus solution and performance went to shit. Yeah, it felt faster than today's equivalent at similar task, but at what cost. If I strip ou…

But that's a plus! People were educated about cyber-risks in a real-life, non-corporate-bullshit, non-give-me-a-break-eyes-rolling way. And then they installed Tiny Personal Firewall which was miles better than even current windows' firewall.

>But that's a plus! People were educated about cyber-risks in a real-life

No it wasn't, no they weren't. That's like saying that growing up in a rough neighborhood where you can get shot, or getting drafted into war, is good for you because it builds character and teaches you to protect yourself.

A bullshit OS full of security vulnerabilities is no fun or useful for any user or business. Yeah, it indirectly helped me in my childhood better understand security, threats and troubleshooting, but overall these faults were a net negative for humanity.

>And then they installed Tiny Personal Firewall

No they didn't. I did tech support at the time. Most XP PCs has whatever bullshit solution from Zone Alarm, Kaspersky, McAfee, etc was cheaper or more advertised at the time. If they had anything to begin with that is, otherwise they were full of Bonzi-Buddy, Strip-Girl animated spyware that came with your DivX player installation or via the usual 'Eminem - Lose Yourself.mp3.exe' Limewire download.

Re: Running Windows 98 in the Browser

#79

Post by mijamo »

candiodari wrote: post #73
paulmooreparks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is striking is the fact that the interactions are the same between old and new shells/applications/syscalls/whatever, but modern software on modern hardware feels so much slower. The only reason for this is that modern software is doing a lot more stuff in the nooks and crannies of those interactions that it didn't used to do. Perhaps some of that stuff is useful, but some of it has to be code that is just less…

You'd especially expect latency to have gone down. Instead, latency went up.

Latency of what? Starting the OS is definitely faster. Launching software is also orders of magnitude faster. HDD don't requires hours of defragmentation to avoid slowing down to a halt. I was only a teenager in the windows 98 era but I remember I was just always waiting for the computer. This is not something I have experienced in a long time now.

Re: Running Windows 98 in the Browser

#80

Post by Xerox9213 »

peterhull90 wrote: post #78

Bravo! Was there anyone used the 'Briefcase' back in the day? I'd forgotten about that. In fact I got so in the zone that I pressed ALT-F4 to close Win98 notepad and shut down my whole web browser instead!

I always assumed that the briefcase was for stuff my dad did. I don’t think he knew what it was either.
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