Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

sciencedirect.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 167 posts

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#71

Post by bilekas »

adrian_b wrote: post #52
Two4 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you microwaved a steak?!!

Roasting meat in a microwave oven (without water in a covered glass vessel) is a valid cooking method, which provides tasty meat in a perfectly reproducible way and in a shorter time than traditional cooking. Nevertheless, for good results it must be done at a low power (I use 440 W in a 1000 W oven) and a long time, e.g. 20 to 25 minutes for chicken, about 30 minutes for turkey and more for pork/beef. For organs, e.…

This is an uncomfortable amount of information around microwave cooking meat for me..

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#72

Post by whalesalad »

sschueller wrote: post #22
r1ch wrote: post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

Yes but isn't this even worse? I can control what I use at home. I can't when I eat or drink out. So I get to pick between PFAS soaked throwaway single use cardboard cups or epithelial barrier damaging glass/ceramic ware.

Seed oils served on a platter coated in rinse aid, welcome to the future!

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#73

Post by morsch »

XorNot wrote: post #62
potatopatch wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely common to get food poisoning at home, and for many people/cases it is indistinguishable from the flu. Who separates meats in their fridge and on their cutting boards, dates the opening times of items, etc? Similarly, a home dishwasher doesn't actually sterilize anything, which is why its safer AFA chemicals. It's just providing the hope that small doses of something you've already interacted with won't…

Everyone I've ever known? Who doesn't separate meat in their fridge, and who's keeping so much in there at one time that this is a problem? Dating opening times is going too far IMO: if it's open, and longer then 7 days in the fridge you toss it. Which is to say, if you can't remember when you opened it, that's also a good sign not to eat it. It's not like any of this is hard to do. Although this: > a home dishwasher…

> if it's open, and longer then 7 days in the fridge you toss it

I hope you don't strictly follow that rule or you'll throw away loads of absolutely edible stuff. Pickles, ketchup, mustard, jams, ... Yoghurt is often still fine after a week. My thing of miso has been open for months.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#74

Post by dghughes »

hughesjj wrote: post #32
indigo0086 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lesson in that first few sentences. Of course eating out is risky as it's a black box where you get food for putting money in it. You're not guaranteed quality or safety in the more subtle sense

So far, to my knowledge, I've gotten food poisoning from something I cooked for myself exactly once, and that's because my 12 year old dumbass brain thought microwaving a steak for a few minutes was a valid was a valid way to cook it Almost every time I've actually gotten sick from food has been eating out. I've also seen some close calls like when my fiancee was served 'rare' pork... Which isn't a culinary thing.

You sound like you have the traditional Hughes sensitive gut. Welcome to the family.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#75

Post by drcongo »

hughesjj wrote: post #32
indigo0086 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lesson in that first few sentences. Of course eating out is risky as it's a black box where you get food for putting money in it. You're not guaranteed quality or safety in the more subtle sense

So far, to my knowledge, I've gotten food poisoning from something I cooked for myself exactly once, and that's because my 12 year old dumbass brain thought microwaving a steak for a few minutes was a valid was a valid way to cook it Almost every time I've actually gotten sick from food has been eating out. I've also seen some close calls like when my fiancee was served 'rare' pork... Which isn't a culinary thing.

I have a shellfish allergy, every meal out is like a game of Russian Roulette

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#76

Post by nottorp »

r1ch wrote: post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

Another interesting question is what countries they got their detergents from. Formulas may vary across the world based on what's allowed and what's not.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#77

Post by morsch »

pattmayne wrote: post #65
causi wrote: post #44

Horrible title, since the study didn't actually link normal detergent to gut damage, just rinse aid.

The offending ingredient (alcohol ephoxylate) is present in both my dishwasher pods and my rinse aid. I might start skipping the rinse aid and I'll seek out dishwasher pods that don't have that ingredient. But apparently it's more od an issue with "professional" (restaurant) dishwashers, which use less water and more chemicals. I gathered this from other comments and I don't know if it's true.

Use powder instead of pods. It's better anyway.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

hughesjj wrote: post #32
indigo0086 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lesson in that first few sentences. Of course eating out is risky as it's a black box where you get food for putting money in it. You're not guaranteed quality or safety in the more subtle sense

So far, to my knowledge, I've gotten food poisoning from something I cooked for myself exactly once, and that's because my 12 year old dumbass brain thought microwaving a steak for a few minutes was a valid was a valid way to cook it Almost every time I've actually gotten sick from food has been eating out. I've also seen some close calls like when my fiancee was served 'rare' pork... Which isn't a culinary thing.

Rare pork is absolutely a thing.

https://www.seriouseats.com/case-for-raw-rare-pink-pork-food...

Food safety is a matter of both temperature and time (https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-s...), and we’ve all but eradicated trichinosis in commercially available pork.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#79

Post by willcipriano »

morsch wrote: post #73
XorNot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I've ever known? Who doesn't separate meat in their fridge, and who's keeping so much in there at one time that this is a problem? Dating opening times is going too far IMO: if it's open, and longer then 7 days in the fridge you toss it. Which is to say, if you can't remember when you opened it, that's also a good sign not to eat it. It's not like any of this is hard to do. Although this: > a home dishwasher…

> if it's open, and longer then 7 days in the fridge you toss it I hope you don't strictly follow that rule or you'll throw away loads of absolutely edible stuff. Pickles, ketchup, mustard, jams, ... Yoghurt is often still fine after a week. My thing of miso has been open for months.

I throw out food when it is bad, not based on some arbitrary timer.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#80

Post by XorNot »

morsch wrote: post #73
XorNot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I've ever known? Who doesn't separate meat in their fridge, and who's keeping so much in there at one time that this is a problem? Dating opening times is going too far IMO: if it's open, and longer then 7 days in the fridge you toss it. Which is to say, if you can't remember when you opened it, that's also a good sign not to eat it. It's not like any of this is hard to do. Although this: > a home dishwasher…

> if it's open, and longer then 7 days in the fridge you toss it I hope you don't strictly follow that rule or you'll throw away loads of absolutely edible stuff. Pickles, ketchup, mustard, jams, ... Yoghurt is often still fine after a week. My thing of miso has been open for months.

I mean yeah, you adjust for perishiability. The stuff you list is already preserved though is the thing ('cept mustard, though I did eventually discover that Hot English Mustard loses it's kick after 1.5 years after the jar is open).

Anything you'd normally consider to need to be refrigerated though starts from the "when did you open it" sort of consideration though - meat and vegetables both have about a 1 week timer on them in my experience (though you'll usually know by smell in advance). But "smells okay" isn't a chance I'm going to take unless I'm in a survival situation - and you need to buy groceries weekly anyway.

What helps a ton is having a cheap chest freezer though - they're much more efficient on power, and you can store a ton of stuff in there for ages and just defrost as you go.

Post reply on HN