Live data from Hacker News

Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

electrek.co

71–80 of 386 posts

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#71

This is the kind of thing that keeps my awake at night. Does anyone here have some practical tips to turn an embedded Linux machine into an appliance? The kind of system that a botched update cannot brick but only momentarily disable until a non-technical user presses a factory reset button of some sort.

A/B updates as implemented in android, https://bootlin.com/pub/conferences/2022/elce/opdenacker-imp...

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#72

This is the kind of thing that keeps my awake at night. Does anyone here have some practical tips to turn an embedded Linux machine into an appliance? The kind of system that a botched update cannot brick but only momentarily disable until a non-technical user presses a factory reset button of some sort.

>Does anyone here have some practical tips to turn an embedded Linux machine into an appliance?

Lol

I suppose this is the negative about having sensors that make sure water gets hot enough to be sanitizing, but not so hot that it wastes energy. And I'm sure you can imagine 100 other uses of having a microcontroller/CPU process data and do feedback. (I'm sure there are EE only ways of doing it, but theoretically possible and useful are two different thigs)

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#73

My 2019 car is not connected to the internet. Instead, I use Apple CarPlay for everything. Is there any reason not to do it this way?

More potential for anticompetitive vendor lock-in (sugar-coated as differentiation), and more opportunities to profiteer from stalking behavior (sugar-coated as telemetry to improve user experience).

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried that before, but it sounded terrible. What dongle do you use?

I mean, totally, it doesn't sound great but that's all I can do, my car doesn't have bluetooth :)

Does it not have an aux port? USB C to Aux cables are pretty cheap and simple.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#75

My 2019 car is not connected to the internet. Instead, I use Apple CarPlay for everything. Is there any reason not to do it this way?

Quite a few reasons but primarily CarPlay doesn't know about your vehicle's charge and road trip navigation requires external inputs to determine your charge route. Apple could potentially offer an API to have "reverse" CarPlay where the car's app can feed information into iOS. I recently rented an Mercedes EV which had Apple CarPlay and it was a weird experience having to manage two sets of experiences.

The exact API you describe already exists in CarPlay.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#76
post #48
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where a "bug" has potentially life threatening consequences. What are you referring to? That is not relevant to this story, and would require a deep understanding of the system to make such a claim of negligence. “The issue impacts the infotainment system. In most cases, the rest of the vehicle systems are still operational ...” Also, you can't do an update while driving.

Based on the photo included in the article, what they're calling an infotainment system is actually two separate components, one of which appears to be taking the place of a traditional dashboard. If that's the case and there's no other way to monitor speed, fuel levels, engine temperature, warning lights, etc., I'd say that's quite a bit more worrisome than just not being able to play your favorite music while drivi…

I understand, but the risk of life wouldn't be from the bug, it would be from conscious choice of driving without a speedo. There's a critical distinction there.

In this case, mileage/battery are still present, and I would assume safety critical warnings would still be displayed.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#77
post #39

Bringing CI/CD mindset to cars is probably not a great idea. Software updates to commuter vehicles should have a high bar for operational standards, and a simple thing such as an expired certificate should have never been deployed. Having isolated networks in vehicles helps but doesn't prevent broken updates from, eventually, bricking the cars.

I think this shows more of a fundamental flaw in their update mechanism, than anything. I don't think a botched update is a big deal. It happens, and should be expected , in a sane design. The fact that the customer noticed is a big deal. There are many implementations that could be used for an "auto rollback" feature. They either failed to implement that in a sane way, or they were goobers, and assumed things would…

I would be pretty pissed if I went out to my garage to head to work one morning and found that a damn software update bricked my car overnight. This shouldn't even be a thing, why does a car need regular software updates to keep functioning?

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#78

My 2019 car is not connected to the internet. Instead, I use Apple CarPlay for everything. Is there any reason not to do it this way?

My cars are from 2019 and 2001. I don't use CarPlay or any internet features in any of them. Instead, I just use my Android's screen itself for navigation and bluetooth for phone calls and music.

Perhaps there are advantages to tighter integration with my car (at least the newer one) but IMO they are outweighed by the risks of things like this, or even just getting a software update that borks a small feature that I like.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#80
What kinds of changes are generally included in these over the air updates? I have this sudden urge to shake my fist at a cloud and tell the gods that cars shouldn't need updates in the first place, if the car was ever deemed ready for production and then sold to customers for money. But, maybe I'm wrong, and it makes perfect sense. All I can think of would be something like a periodic update to navigation data, is that it?
Post reply on HN