Couldn't the Baltic states switch synchronous zones by disconnecting from the Russian grid, blacking out and then bootstrapping using the European grid? That would break continuity of service and require a black start (far from ideal), but that's a contingency they must've thought of in case they suddenly got cut off from Russia and Belarus for some reason.
To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
71–80 of 169 posts
Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
#72As an aside, one of the most stunning proofs of how successful the European Union is happened with the grid. On 8 January 2021, the synchronous area of Continental Europe split into two, the system separation resulted in a deficit of power (approx. -6.3 GW) in the North-West Area and a surplus of power (approx. +6.3 GW) in the South-East Area, The reaction speed was something to behold. The event happened at 14:05 CE…
>As an aside, one of the most stunning proofs of how successful the European Union is happened with the grid. On 8 January 2021, the synchronous area of Continental Europe split into two The European grid has nothing to do with the EU. The grid includes non-EU countries like Switzerland and Norway. The UK did not leave the grid after Brexit; its interconnections with Ireland and the continent still exist. The US and…
ENTSOE-E exists because of the 2009/72/EC directive. It's an EU entity. As with many such, they also allow / work with entities outside of the EU but that doesn't change the fact this is an association existing under and because of the EU legal framework.
Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
#73The headline implies the Baltic states will have an independent electricity grid, but it's just switching dependence from Russia to the EU (for electricity) and the USA (for liquified natural gas imports). Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia would be better off eliminating those dependencies entirely by focusing on expanding their domestic renewable energy production infrastructure.
> Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia would be better off eliminating those dependencies entirely by focusing on expanding their domestic renewable energy production infrastructure.
Perhaps, but the time scale for that is much longer than this, and they're very eager to switch ASAP.
Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
#74> All nine of the Baltics’ synchronous condensers will have power-boosting flywheels, as she explains, equipping each installation with up to 2,200 megajoules of energy. Though 97% of that energy isn’t available to the grid as the name synchronous condenser implies.
I don't see how it implies that. In a DC power supply, for example, you can stick a regular capacitor (condenser) in parallel with the DC output and it will smooth out fluctuations in the voltage. The energy stored in that capacitor isn't available for you to use. You need the capacitor to stay charged so it can maintain the target voltage level. The only way to get a capacitor to be at a certain voltage is to charge…
The flywheel is directly connected to the synchronous condenser's rotor, and that rotor is locked to the grid's frequency. The grid's frequency must be maintained within a very narrow range (for a variety of reasons), so the actual speed difference of the flywheel between "full" and "the grid is shutting down" is very small and so most of the energy cannot be put into the grid. This is why flywheel storage uses variable-frequency drive systems; to be able to pull energy out of the flywheel over the entire range of full-speed to ~standstill.
Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
#75HVDC facilities look like something out of a scifi movie: * https://new.abb.com/news/detail/19701/abb-wins-600-mw-hvdc-o...
Indeed, they do. The Wikipedia page photos are some of my favorite photos of power tech.
Another thing that made a really strong impression was visiting a power dam and realizing that it was almost dead quiet while an enormous amount of power was being generated. Just a slight hum and a vibration in the floor, that was all.
Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
this article is about using very high mass alternators to stabilize the grid's frequency
The clearest term IMO is synchronous capacitors. They are in effect large flywheels that can operate as both an electric motor and a generator. Over time they are a net power drain for the grid, but as parent says offer synthetic grid stability independent of power sources.
Transformers also have some of that effect.
Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Very interesting. I'm wondering whether distance and "direction" are an issue here? That is: over large distances (how) would (light speed) latency translate into phase change if "downstream stabilization" suddenly becomes "upstream". (Sorry for asking such a poorly stated question that I really haven't thought through — I know very little about electricity and you seem to understand quite a lot about this subject.)…
Good instinct. There is a site that measures frequency in several places in Europe and shows the phase difference. [0] The phase difference is not really about distance it's more about energy flows, where it's lagging there more power is used and where it is leading more power is generated. The flow will be from early phase to later. [0] https://gridradar.net/charts/map/map.html
Within reason. If you lead or lag too much it will cause trouble (either for you or for other consumers and in a really bad case for the grid equipment itself).
That's why the grid will selectively island parts that are too far out of phase. Normally this should not happen though.
Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Grid itself can't store energy, the generation and consumption needs to be in balance. So while there may be huge variance in on both sides (a sunny day, a wind gust versus switching on the AC a train leaving the station) the only way to adjust is open a valve add steam, fuel? Will that scale to when, say, 80% of electricity sources are weather dependent? Or is that the pumped hydro / big batteries / future technol…
Grids have many-many consumers and many generators. So switching on a single AC does not have a noticeable effect. There are however correlated events like the famous East Enders peak in the UK (daily TV show at the end of which a large number of britons go and make tea with their 2kW electric kettles). But weather can span large areas and the solutions can be roughly categorized as: - some form of energy storage: ba…
> There are however correlated events like the famous East Enders peak in the UK (daily TV show at the end of which a large number of britons go and make tea with their 2kW electric kettles
Cruachan to the rescue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station
Zero to full production in two minutes, 30 seconds in an extreme case if required. It's the Power Infrastructure equivalent of a supercar.
Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
#79HVDC facilities look like something out of a scifi movie: * https://new.abb.com/news/detail/19701/abb-wins-600-mw-hvdc-o...
Massive page overlay popup. Can't esc from it
Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again
#80HVDC facilities look like something out of a scifi movie: * https://new.abb.com/news/detail/19701/abb-wins-600-mw-hvdc-o...
... meanwhile, it's hard to believe that Japan still runs two separate grids at two separate frequencies. Seems like it'd be worth sorting out a transition plan instead of building that sort of facility, and (presumably) a bunch of others just like it.