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System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

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Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#71

Post by wkat4242 »

discmonkey wrote: post #62
chrismorgan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Nice keyboard Hang on, I thought this was still Clevo stuff. I bought a Clevo-ODM laptop a decade or so ago, the keyboard was atrocious in feel (no click left at all on most keys, just linearish sponginess) and activation (e.g. Space was quite difficult to activate, A would very regularly double-activate) within two years. And I know I’ve heard similar complaints regularly since then from others.

yeah - as seen from a few comments on my post, everyone has different opinions on non-objective stuff related to keyboard/trackpad. I feel like the keyboard is pretty responsive while the trackpad isn't, but the only way for you to know is to have tried it I guess.

Keyboards don't have to be non objective. I think everyone agrees that ThinkPad keyboards were great (though since the T14s gen3 they too have lost their quality)

Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#72

Post by Cu3PO42 »

bgribble wrote: post #61
nasso_ wrote: post #13

> Among other things, this means that modern forms of suspend work out of the box That sounds very promising. That has always been a major annoyance to me. I don't think i have every owned a laptop with linux where I actually trusted that it would still have battery the day after if I just closed the lid.

I may have misunderstood, but I did not read this as saying "S3 suspend works". I read it as "'Modern suspend' works, so I don't have to keep trying to get S3 suspend working". That is basically the opposite of what you want. 'Modern suspend' is why you burn battery with the lid closed, overheat your laptop when it's closed in a backpack, etc. It sucks. It's not sleeping in any real sense and can power up to full pow…

I have the same experience with various Lenovo laptops running Windows. However, whatever Apple does on MacBooks works. I can close the lid, slide it into my backpack on Friday and open it on Monday with virtually the same battery level.

Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#73

Post by panick21_ »

chrismorgan wrote: post #55
discmonkey wrote: post #31

Figure I might as well drop a quick review after 2 years with the lemur pro 11 Pros: * Most things "just work", which you only appreciate after working with other linux laptops. For example, I can seamlessly plug this laptop in place of my work macbook with just one usb-c cable. That being said I think things have generally gotten better in the space so this may not be as much of a selling point anymore. Additionally…

> * Nice keyboard Hang on, I thought this was still Clevo stuff. I bought a Clevo-ODM laptop a decade or so ago, the keyboard was atrocious in feel (no click left at all on most keys, just linearish sponginess) and activation (e.g. Space was quite difficult to activate, A would very regularly double-activate) within two years. And I know I’ve heard similar complaints regularly since then from others.

System76 is working with Clevo but increasingly with other vendors where they have some more input. Most new products aren't Clevo is my understanding.

Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#74

Post by fulafel »

nasso_ wrote: post #13

> Among other things, this means that modern forms of suspend work out of the box That sounds very promising. That has always been a major annoyance to me. I don't think i have every owned a laptop with linux where I actually trusted that it would still have battery the day after if I just closed the lid.

"Modern suspend" is a specific technical term for the suspend system from Intel and MS that's supposed to supersede S3 suspend. It's supposed to let the OS do stuff like poll emails and download software updates while in the suspend state. Modern suspend typically has the problem you describe with both Windows and Linux since its teething problems have continued for a long time.

Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#75

Post by ahoneybun »

bgribble wrote: post #61
nasso_ wrote: post #13

> Among other things, this means that modern forms of suspend work out of the box That sounds very promising. That has always been a major annoyance to me. I don't think i have every owned a laptop with linux where I actually trusted that it would still have battery the day after if I just closed the lid.

I may have misunderstood, but I did not read this as saying "S3 suspend works". I read it as "'Modern suspend' works, so I don't have to keep trying to get S3 suspend working". That is basically the opposite of what you want. 'Modern suspend' is why you burn battery with the lid closed, overheat your laptop when it's closed in a backpack, etc. It sucks. It's not sleeping in any real sense and can power up to full pow…

It's a tough spot since you need S0ix (modern suspend) for Windows 11 to work but you need S3 for Intel ME to be turned off so you would have to pick one or the other.

Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#76

Post by Cu3PO42 »

pimterry wrote: post #53
canadianwriter wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use the barrel jack you now have an extra USB port you can use for stuff! If you forget your barrel jack connector you can borrow a USB charger and it'll work! Win-win!

Couldn't you replace it with another USB-C though? Then you'd always have an extra USB you can use for stuff!

I'm sure you could, but another USB-C port is certainly more expensive than a barrel plug. How significantly this affects the BOM I can't say, but due to the complexity of USB-C I assume it's not totally negligible.

If you want the port to handle PD, various (display) alt modes, high speed data transfer, maybe even TB, you may need a few additional controllers. OTOH having multiple USB-C ports with varying capabilities can be quite confusing.

Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#77

Post by sdtrhub892 »

discmonkey wrote: post #31

Figure I might as well drop a quick review after 2 years with the lemur pro 11 Pros: * Most things "just work", which you only appreciate after working with other linux laptops. For example, I can seamlessly plug this laptop in place of my work macbook with just one usb-c cable. That being said I think things have generally gotten better in the space so this may not be as much of a selling point anymore. Additionally…

>Most things "just work", which you only appreciate after working with other linux laptops. For example, I can seamlessly plug this laptop in place of my work macbook with just one usb-c cable. That being said I think things have generally gotten better in the space so this may not be as much of a selling point anymore. Additionally this laptop doesn't have an nvidia gpu, which means its job is easier.

This might be your experience with System76, but it hasn't been mine. My Adder WS had infuriating software problems.

• It would regularly hang when disconnecting from AC. The only fix I ever found was a hard-boot.

• When disconnecting from AC, the CPU would sometimes get stuck at 800 MHz. The only procedure I found to reliably fix this was to reconnect to power, wait a few seconds, disconnect, wait a few seconds, and then reconnect.

• It would regularly fail to wake from sleep.

• The screen randomly flashed bright white when suspended, so I had to get in the habit of shutting the lid at night to keep it from waking me up.

• The fan would get stuck at 100% even when the temperatures were at 30°. Fixing this required sleeping and waking the machine.

Maybe some of the problems were caused by Nvidia, but I don't much care. The fact remains that I've been using Linux laptops since I was in high school and I've never had problems like these. Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora all worked well on Dell, Framework, IBM, and Lenovo hardware (Yoga, not Thinkpad), as well as on my home-built desktops with Nvidia GPUs.

Also some hardware problems:

• The barrel connector was cheap and the power cable would regularly fall out. This exacerbated the software problems. The machine would get stuck at 800 MHz at least once a day and hang every few days.

• The machine was generally cheaply-built. The rubber feet fell off, the case creaked and flexed, several keys cracked, small plastic bits broke off, etc.

Credit where it is due, System76 support was responsive and replaced the mainboard promptly and free of charge. But that didn't fix the problems, so not all that much credit is due.

I wound up installing Windows on my System76 and giving it to my cousin as a gaming machine. I owned it less than two years.

>Moral points for supporting a small company that focuses on security (whether this is actually significant is up to the reader)

System76 rebadges Clevo machines and isn't very forthright about it. I find that questionable enough to outweigh my preference for small businesses.

Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#78

Post by mkesper »

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #72
bgribble wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may have misunderstood, but I did not read this as saying "S3 suspend works". I read it as "'Modern suspend' works, so I don't have to keep trying to get S3 suspend working". That is basically the opposite of what you want. 'Modern suspend' is why you burn battery with the lid closed, overheat your laptop when it's closed in a backpack, etc. It sucks. It's not sleeping in any real sense and can power up to full pow…

I have the same experience with various Lenovo laptops running Windows. However, whatever Apple does on MacBooks works. I can close the lid, slide it into my backpack on Friday and open it on Monday with virtually the same battery level.

You can set it to "non-Windows" (aka real) standby in the BIOS settings. If you can't find it in settings, this might help: https://www.reddit.com/r/Lenovo/comments/zq3tc5/how_to_disab...

Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#79

Post by SoftTalker »

jbeard4 wrote: post #67
discmonkey wrote: post #31

Figure I might as well drop a quick review after 2 years with the lemur pro 11 Pros: * Most things "just work", which you only appreciate after working with other linux laptops. For example, I can seamlessly plug this laptop in place of my work macbook with just one usb-c cable. That being said I think things have generally gotten better in the space so this may not be as much of a selling point anymore. Additionally…

Agree, battery life is atrocious. I get typically get 1.5-2 hours on a charge, after 2.5 years of ownership. I always have anxiety about plugging it in. It's the biggest problem with this machine. Other than that, I have been very happy with it. Keyboard, trackpad, screen - all adequate for me. In every way other than the battery, it pretty much gets out of the way and gets the job done.

I wonder why. I'm running Ubuntu 22.04 on a Dell Latitude and battery life hasn't been an issue for me. I probably don't really do power-hungry stuff but just browsing, editing code, ssh, email, etc. it's been fine.

Re: System76's Lemur Pro Laptop Is Just a Nice Linux Laptop

#80

Post by troyvit »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #9

It’s a nice computer but calling it “repairable” is a farce, and System76’s customer support is unfortunately woefully inadequate. I have one of these and spilled a drink on my keyboard, getting it replaced was $300 of parts and labor, but the worst thing was it took almost 2 months pressuring their support reps to actually complete the process and they would frequently just not respond to messages, or ignore informa…

That's only one side of the "repairable" coin though. They offer a deep list of thorough manuals for those who want to DIY their repair.[1]

I agree though that getting the parts for the repairs can be a hassle.

[1] https://support.system76.com/articles/guides/

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