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Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

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Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#71
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hmmmm when you think about, everything is an ad. Put more simply, everything is "content" and all content has an agenda. I guess an ad is just a particular type of content with a particular type of agenda.

no it's not. FB ads are force-fed content that nobody asked for. I'll take a ad-free subscription service over that any day so I can keep my freedom to spend my attention on things I actually want, not someone else's random garbage. Unfortunately, this arm-twisting ad-supported model is the only one available in the US on all socials, so I had to suffer through it because there is no choice, but now I'm pretty much o…

You kind of went on a rant there. You didn't really explain how ads aren't a form of content. You just expressed how you don't like ads.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#73
post #68
post #6

[flagged]

Because living in the era of being psychologically manipulated from every direction for every second of our lives fucking sucks. Because they should show fewer ads that don't fuck with our heads and make less money in the process, and regulation hasn't caught up yet, and in the meantime they have an approximate monopoly so we have to deal with it. Because they stay in power not by doing the best job or providing the…

What makes a targeted ad the same as psychological manipulation?

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#74
post #6

[flagged]

speaking for myself, the ads i get are clearly very targeted but very rarely relevant, and sometimes distressing

just as an example, two random subjects i recently browsed online are taylor swift and over vs under breast implants

i can't stand taylor swift, i just wanted to see what the fuss about her concert movie was about, kinda hoping it was panned (it's not being panned)

the over vs under breast implants was to settle a bet i had with my gf - she said her friend has under muscle breast implants, i didn't believe her when she said that was a thing so googled and was proven wrong

now i'm being presented news articles and ads about both those topics, despite me having zero interest in either of them (and no, i'm not going to engage in some semantics about akshully i'm implicitly interested in them, otherwise i wouldn't have googled them - i'm not, periodt)

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#75
post #6

[flagged]

While the data-collection issue is much larger, I actually don't want to be shown relevant ads.

Ads, like noise, impose a mental cost on every person who watches them. Besides the benefits to the business, a very small percentage of those people get the benefit because they want to buy the product. We generally tolerate ads in society, despite the blanket costs because some amount of ads are necessary for businesses (and ergo society) to flourish.

The problem with targeted-ads is that they are custom designed to mind fuck me. The concept, every letter, every color, every image chosen by a cadre of professionals, who spend their entire life doing this, and highly sophisticated algorithms, designed fully to get me to want to buy something I don't need. Human brains, evolved on the African savanna are simply not designed to withstand this sort of assault.

I don't want to be exposed to such ads, and society doesn't need them to flourish. Do as much as you can with non-targeted ads, and go home.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#76
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is opposed to relevant ads on TV (I mean, not any more than they're opposed to ads in general). it's the means by which they make them relevant. No one would be cool if Facebook sent agents to your home each night to rifle through your drawers to learn about you and "tailor ads to you and make them more relevant". That's the problem, the data-collecting and spying.

And the potential use of this data by governments around the world for less innocuous purposes than "showing relevant ads". It is not too surprising that companies who can profit from it push the data collection as far as they can. It is more surprising/troubling how the people in general seem to either have completely capitulated due to the generalization of the data collection... or fail to understand the implicati…

Got it, so why not outlaw that? For all we know, they can continue doing what but not show us relevant ads.

I suppose twitter knows nothing about me and shows me stupid gaming ads all the time. I click on them exactly 0 times. Show me something relevant to what I see on HN and probably will even find it useful.

If I can’t block all ads, at least show me something useful.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#78
post #6

[flagged]

I don't really get it either. I honestly think there's a number of motivations.

First, some people just don't want to see ads at all. I'm sympathetic to this. I use ad blockers. I don't feel bad about that. But it's not really a reason to oppose contextual advertising.

Second, a lot of people don't really understand what targeted advertising is. I think some people think Meta or Google are selling a zip file saying "Bob Smith of 1234 Main Street like Lego, trains and polyamory" when an advertiser doesn't actually care about you, personally. They care about an audience. This is a group of people with some defined set of characteristics like "Men aged 18-35 that live in the Pacific Northwest and like fishing and hiking". And they're not selling that data. They're selling access to people who match a profile.

It's a little trickier with third-party data services and cookie matching but all that really comes down to is the platform creates an ID for you and passes that to the advertiser so when they see you, they can build their own contextual data. That may sound nefarious but the ID is just a random string. It's different for every advertiser so you can't match across advertisers. Users can pretty much reset that ID at any time and all that matching data is effectively orphaned and lost.

Now we can, should and have had conversations about what targeting is allowed. Generally, location can't be too specific (eg typically only down to a city or town). There have been issues too with illegal discrimination (eg [1][2]).

I also think we should generally ban all advertising to anyone under 18, targeted or not.

So personally I see advertiser targeting capabilities not behavioural contextualization of preferences to be the issue to tackel.

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/21/faceboo...

[2]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/aug/24/google-se...

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#80
post #73
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because living in the era of being psychologically manipulated from every direction for every second of our lives fucking sucks. Because they should show fewer ads that don't fuck with our heads and make less money in the process, and regulation hasn't caught up yet, and in the meantime they have an approximate monopoly so we have to deal with it. Because they stay in power not by doing the best job or providing the…

What makes a targeted ad the same as psychological manipulation?

Advertising is pretty much psychological manipulation by its very definition. Targeted advertising is manipulation targeted directly at my psyche.
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