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Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

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Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#71

Post by simondotau »

jameslk wrote: post #20
leblancfg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GP meant "the minority browser we bend our logic for, in order to accommodate"

Yes, that is what I meant. I have to work on a lot of e-commerce websites and the WebKit browser engine is the one that seems to always be late to the party or outright won’t support new features. But of course most shoppers on a website are on mobile Safari, especially the ones making purchases. And there’s nothing anyone can do about it because Apple won’t allow other types of browser engines on iOS.

If you need “new features” not available in Safari in order to run an ecommerce website, I’m fairly confident that you’re doing it wrong.

(Of course usually when one delves into exactly what features Safari is missing, specifically the ones which piss off web developers, it’s push notifications. And to that I salute Apple for bravely holding the line against that nonsense.)

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#72

Post by hot_gril »

thriftwy wrote: post #64
ta8645 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was worried from the very start of the WASM tech, that it would lead to the end of the user-controlled client. You don't even really need an embedded browser, a motivated provider could create a completely proprietary protocol for rendering their pages.

That you can do trivially even today. Just show your web site using in-browser VNC client.

That's the final form. Kinda like video game streaming.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#73

Post by omneity »

klysm wrote: post #27

We are sorely lacking inner browser virtualization. This way web pages can virtualize other web pages internally via canvas and get true micro-front ends! Every component can be fully isolated from every other component and they will communicate via network requests to each other

To sarcasm or not to sarcasm .. The line has never been thinner.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#74

Post by chatmasta »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #30

There's a product here that's been waiting to happen for awhile. I've been anticipating somebody cross-compiling another browser engine to WASM but this works, too. Deliver your site only to the "inner browser" (that the user has no control over because it's heavily obfuscated and tricked-out with anti-debugging code) and you eliminate all ad blockers. Throw some DNS-over-HTTPS w/ certificate pinning in for good meas…

This might be something you fear, maybe even legitimately, but it seems hyperbolic to assign an equivalence to your worst fear and the passion project of an individual who made this and probably does not have any of the nefarious intentions you default to attributing to anyone who could create something resembling it.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#75

Post by cangeroo »

Terr_ wrote: post #66
quelsolaar wrote: post #50

When desktop applications running in electron, just doesnt have enough web abstraction to keep up with mores law, a hero comes along, to ensure there can always be one more level of java script between you and a responsive UI.

Speaking of Electron... when I start my Slack client for work, there are a series of processes where at least one reports 1.130 terabytes of virtual memory. (Shown in top as "VIRT".) Now, maybe that's just a potential usage that trust-me-bro it'll never actually try to use or access in RAM or on disk... but how on earth is that number for a chat client so much bigger than either Firefox with 100+ tabs or even Java-ba…

Virtual memory is allocated for isolation reasons. See v8 isolates.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#76

Post by simondotau »

leblancfg wrote: post #19
IAmLiterallyAB wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno I'd say the new IE is Chrome. They basically control the ecosystem and everyone targets them when developing. "Best viewed with I̶n̶t̶e̶r̶n̶e̶t̶ ̶E̶x̶p̶l̶o̶r̶e̶r Chrome"

I think GP meant "the minority browser we bend our logic for, in order to accommodate"

> "the minority browser we bend our logic for, in order to accommodate"

The web is dead. All hail the Chrome Platform, where the official definition of correct behaviour is “whatever Chrome does.”

How dare Apple force web developers to target more than one browser engine. Interoperability and platform agnosticism is for losers.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#77

Post by everfree »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #30

There's a product here that's been waiting to happen for awhile. I've been anticipating somebody cross-compiling another browser engine to WASM but this works, too. Deliver your site only to the "inner browser" (that the user has no control over because it's heavily obfuscated and tricked-out with anti-debugging code) and you eliminate all ad blockers. Throw some DNS-over-HTTPS w/ certificate pinning in for good meas…

That sounds somewhat similar to the Chrome team's Web Environment Integrity proposal.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36778999

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#78

Post by jameslk »

simondotau wrote: post #71
jameslk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is what I meant. I have to work on a lot of e-commerce websites and the WebKit browser engine is the one that seems to always be late to the party or outright won’t support new features. But of course most shoppers on a website are on mobile Safari, especially the ones making purchases. And there’s nothing anyone can do about it because Apple won’t allow other types of browser engines on iOS.

If you need “new features” not available in Safari in order to run an ecommerce website, I’m fairly confident that you’re doing it wrong. (Of course usually when one delves into exactly what features Safari is missing, specifically the ones which piss off web developers, it’s push notifications. And to that I salute Apple for bravely holding the line against that nonsense.)

No, for me they have more to do with web performance. Look up how to track Largest Contentful Paint in Safari, for example. Many other types of ways to optimize websites are not available in Safari.

IIRC push notifications are supported in Safari.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#80

Post by cyanydeez »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #30

There's a product here that's been waiting to happen for awhile. I've been anticipating somebody cross-compiling another browser engine to WASM but this works, too. Deliver your site only to the "inner browser" (that the user has no control over because it's heavily obfuscated and tricked-out with anti-debugging code) and you eliminate all ad blockers. Throw some DNS-over-HTTPS w/ certificate pinning in for good meas…

Godel would like a word with you.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/goedel-incompleteness/sup....

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