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Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

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Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#71

Post by livrem »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #44
markjonsona989 wrote: post #33

I have to say I don't understand Elon's (Tesla's) reaction here. Surely he was advised on Swedish and EU laws and how things work over here before he decided to do business in Sweden?

Tesla is not doing anything illegal as far as I understand. Looks like there is an expectation that Tesla behaves in a certain way in Sweden because " that's way we've always done it " but that's not in law. Tesla is sticking to the law, as far as I understand. I'm a bit uncomfortable about companies being criticised for sticking to the law. Of course, if workes and unions disagree they can also use their legal right…

It is true that is not the law, but it is an agreement between unions and employer organizations in Sweden going back at least to 1938 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltsj%C3%B6baden_Agreement).

Following the law is a very low bar because of that, since employers and unions are supposed to be able to sort things out between themselves. If companies begin to just "stick to the law" the system will break down obviously and a new system will have to replace it.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#72

Post by rini17 »

unmole wrote: post #28
VeejayRampay wrote: post #7

elon is furious that european workers demand to work in a safe environment because this is not how fortunes are built (they're built the old fashion way, with broken limbs and lead poisoning)

How are Swedish Tesla employees unsafe? Does Sweden not have safety regulations? Are Swedish authorities failing to enforce them?

Isn't voluntary agreement between employer and employees better than regulations? They should be last resort, and they can't catch everything, such as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38028660

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#73

Post by markjonsona989 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #41
markjonsona989 wrote: post #33

I have to say I don't understand Elon's (Tesla's) reaction here. Surely he was advised on Swedish and EU laws and how things work over here before he decided to do business in Sweden?

Im not sure what you are saying. Strikebreakers are not illegal in EU. They aren't anywhere AFAIK, unions workers just dont like scabs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker#Europe

That's why I also said "the way things work here" because it's a cultural thing; you just don't mess with worker's right in Europe. It might not be against the law, but it's not a normal practise. From what I found online last time this happened in Sweden was in 1920s. I'm not from Sweden but I am European and I know that unions and strikes are a normal thing and everybody supports them.

If Elon tries to forcefully break up a strike, he will just amass the wrath of other unions and the entire Swedish population turning an issue of collective agreement into a political problem. I honestly don't see this ending well for Tesla.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#74

Post by prmoustache »

will5421 wrote: post #14
StevenWaterman wrote: post #5

From a previous discussion: https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2021/09/21/when-mcdonal...

“Truckers refused to deliver food and beer to McDonalds.“ Beer?

As a european, I didn't knew this was not a thing at McDonalds. I have always seen beer served there and I don't know why it should be exempt from serving it.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#75

Post by unmole »

RandomLensman wrote: post #52
unmole wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the Swedish economy not doing well? Why can't the workers switch to companies that offer better working conditions?

Why are societies not allowed to chose certain models how to deal with some economic or employment situations? Why would only capital be allowed to pool but not workers?

Is a competing model not allowed in that society? Why can't individuals make decisions for themselves?

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#76

Post by arghwhat »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #44
markjonsona989 wrote: post #33

I have to say I don't understand Elon's (Tesla's) reaction here. Surely he was advised on Swedish and EU laws and how things work over here before he decided to do business in Sweden?

Tesla is not doing anything illegal as far as I understand. Looks like there is an expectation that Tesla behaves in a certain way in Sweden because " that's way we've always done it " but that's not in law. Tesla is sticking to the law, as far as I understand. I'm a bit uncomfortable about companies being criticised for sticking to the law. Of course, if workes and unions disagree they can also use their legal right…

Solely sticking to the law means paying minimum wage with maximum hours for any work type with no benefits. Negotiation and better terms are not part of the law, but I'm pretty sure you don't want to do without. Union agreements are the standard way to do this here, and refusing to negotiate with unions means refusing to cooperate with the work force market.

They can disagree with unions and the people within the law, just as they can fail as a business from making enemies of the whole country within the law. Civil customs and agreements are not meant to be law.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#77

Post by arghwhat »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #65
RandomLensman wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have long determined that the rule of law is only one component of a functioning society. There is a lot of stuff beyond the rule of law that makes things work. Anyone not understanding that will have trouble in any society.

And mob rule is a recipe for a nasty society...

The proper term is "democracy" when the mob is the majority of a society.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#78

Post by mytailorisrich »

livrem wrote: post #71
mytailorisrich wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is not doing anything illegal as far as I understand. Looks like there is an expectation that Tesla behaves in a certain way in Sweden because " that's way we've always done it " but that's not in law. Tesla is sticking to the law, as far as I understand. I'm a bit uncomfortable about companies being criticised for sticking to the law. Of course, if workes and unions disagree they can also use their legal right…

It is true that is not the law, but it is an agreement between unions and employer organizations in Sweden going back at least to 1938 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltsj%C3%B6baden_Agreement ). Following the law is a very low bar because of that, since employers and unions are supposed to be able to sort things out between themselves. If companies begin to just "stick to the law" the system will break down obviou…

Yes. That also smacks of corporatism and "old boys club" probably in part because Sweden is a small country and, I imagine, everyone used to know everyone else in business and political circles.

Internationalisation is putting this to the test.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#79

Post by maxerickson »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #25
VeejayRampay wrote: post #7

elon is furious that european workers demand to work in a safe environment because this is not how fortunes are built (they're built the old fashion way, with broken limbs and lead poisoning)

Except that it is how fortunes are built, it's just a few percent point (possibly, at most) lower than it could potentially be.

Modern production workers have a lot of training, losing planned hours to injuries isn't profitable.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#80

Post by prmoustache »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #44
markjonsona989 wrote: post #33

I have to say I don't understand Elon's (Tesla's) reaction here. Surely he was advised on Swedish and EU laws and how things work over here before he decided to do business in Sweden?

Tesla is not doing anything illegal as far as I understand. Looks like there is an expectation that Tesla behaves in a certain way in Sweden because " that's way we've always done it " but that's not in law. Tesla is sticking to the law, as far as I understand. I'm a bit uncomfortable about companies being criticised for sticking to the law. Of course, if workes and unions disagree they can also use their legal right…

Well nothing in the law say you need to be polite, say hello, thank you and good bye. However good luck having decent collaboration and commercial entries if you yell at everyone and insult them.
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