Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#71

Post by vincnetas » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 7:45 AM UTC

einpoklum wrote: post #46

Sakos wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried running a firewall with explicit prompts? Everything connects home now. It's infuriating.

The majority of FOSS programs don't connect anywhere - although there has been an increase, for sure. Last year we had an argument this regarding LibreOffice, where an option to collect some telemetry was suggested as a nagging-opt-in. Opponents argued against this because some fraction of our users will press Accept just to get through the installation, or without understanding what they're accepting; plus we just d…

"The majority of FOSS programs don't connect anywhere" is a very week position. Not sure is english has analogy for saying from other language but it translates to "trust but verify". So parents comment makes sense:

Get a global firewall for outgoing connections.

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#72

Post by Nursie » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 7:48 AM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #43

mjburgess wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect they are dating it to trigger some terms of the GDPR, eg., reasonable response lengths when notified of infraction

That opens another question: which means of communication would count for that? Does commenting on a GitHub issue really count? Wouldn't you have some sort of contact details specifically for that in a license agreement or similar?

Usually, for the statutory thing, you do have to be able to prove the counterparty received the communication, so registered mail is often the best way, because someone has actually signed for it at that point.

But if they respond at all using other channels, you probably still have enough.

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#73

Post by pjmlp » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 7:49 AM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #54

not_your_vase wrote: post #5

Have you noticed that MS mostly stopped using EEE, and changed strategy to just ignore rules/laws/licenses, and wait to see what happens? We hear it frequently that "today's MS is not the same as the old MS", but I have my doubts. This particular one just the latest. But the really big one (IMHO) is the one where they simply started to ignore EFF[0], when they were asking them about the copyright status of co-pilot.…

> Have you noticed that MS mostly stopped using EEE, No, I haven't. Notice that MS now loves Linux... provided you run it on Azure or as a component of Windows (WSL). They adopted Chrome...'s rendering engine and then abused their desktop OS market share to shove the result down people's throats. They don't have the leverage they once enjoyed, but the approach didn't change, at least not in general.

Hardly any different from FAANG so beloved by FOSS folks....

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#74

Post by throwaway79897 » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 8:01 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #73

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you noticed that MS mostly stopped using EEE, No, I haven't. Notice that MS now loves Linux... provided you run it on Azure or as a component of Windows (WSL). They adopted Chrome...'s rendering engine and then abused their desktop OS market share to shove the result down people's throats. They don't have the leverage they once enjoyed, but the approach didn't change, at least not in general.

Hardly any different from FAANG so beloved by FOSS folks....

I don't see the connection between Amazon, Facebook, and Netflix and free software.

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#75

Post by pjmlp » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 8:12 AM UTC

throwaway79897 wrote: post #74

pjmlp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly any different from FAANG so beloved by FOSS folks....

I don't see the connection between Amazon, Facebook, and Netflix and free software.

Apparently everyone celebrates the stuff they put out into FOSS, whereas their agenda is hardly any different from Micro$oft.

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#76

Post by blueboo » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 8:15 AM UTC

not_your_vase wrote: post #5

Have you noticed that MS mostly stopped using EEE, and changed strategy to just ignore rules/laws/licenses, and wait to see what happens? We hear it frequently that "today's MS is not the same as the old MS", but I have my doubts. This particular one just the latest. But the really big one (IMHO) is the one where they simply started to ignore EFF[0], when they were asking them about the copyright status of co-pilot.…

The current system highly incentivises sufficiently large corporations to embrace the Nike principles: Break the rules, fight the law

The worst case scenario, if you lose a game stacked in your favour several times in a row, you pay a pittance, or performatively correct a now-obsolete injustice.

VScode telemetry will remain opt out because it yields very valuable information. Microsoft is not a democracy, and the outcry here is less than a rounding error, a footnote in some internal director’s morning agenda.

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#77

Post by blueboo » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 8:17 AM UTC

bogantech wrote: post #4

To be fair if someone comments to me with things like: > Please give an answer within the next week until the 16th of June. I wouldn't respond to them either out of spite

Yes, but that’s our childish instinct to be affronted at being held to account for what we know we’re responsible for.

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#78

Post by alkonaut » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 8:20 AM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #72

alkonaut wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That opens another question: which means of communication would count for that? Does commenting on a GitHub issue really count? Wouldn't you have some sort of contact details specifically for that in a license agreement or similar?

Usually, for the statutory thing, you do have to be able to prove the counterparty received the communication, so registered mail is often the best way, because someone has actually signed for it at that point. But if they respond at all using other channels, you probably still have enough.

Seems GDPR is pretty explicit since it requires specific documentation (Data Protection Statements/Privacy policy) and explains that they should contain complaint contact information. I think it would be pretty easy to contact Microsoft on the "expected" channel for a GDPR complaint.

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#79

Post by benterix » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 8:45 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #73

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you noticed that MS mostly stopped using EEE, No, I haven't. Notice that MS now loves Linux... provided you run it on Azure or as a component of Windows (WSL). They adopted Chrome...'s rendering engine and then abused their desktop OS market share to shove the result down people's throats. They don't have the leverage they once enjoyed, but the approach didn't change, at least not in general.

Hardly any different from FAANG so beloved by FOSS folks....

> Hardly any different from FAANG so beloved by FOSS folks....

I don't see what you mean. I'm not sure about "FOSS folks" but at least in the HN community FAANG has little sympathy.

Re: Microsoft: Require user consent before sending any telemetry

#80

Post by lloydatkinson » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 8:48 AM UTC

Looks like the monthly “people absolutely lose their minds over VS Code telemetry”. The same people would then be complaining if VS Code crashed constantly from bugs that they also never report in place of no telemetry.