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Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

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Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#71

Post by b112 »

caconym_ wrote: post #43
b112 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really a bike path, now is it? It's a painted lane on a road. I've never been in a place where I had to take a "busy main road" to get around locally. Cross it sometimes, sure, which can be done at a light. This sort of highlights the problem. Over-protectiveness, by examining the worst that can happen, and the worst scenario.

I've been riding in a big west coast city for the better part of two decades, and I have definitely not been able to rely on dedicated bike paths (or even multimodal "trails") to get around. I mostly ride in the road, and often in the car lane rather than a paint-separated bike lane when I judge that the latter is unsafe (can happen for various reasons but mostly conflicts with cars turning right, pulling out, etc.).…

I've been riding in a big west coast city for the better part of two decades, and I have definitely not been able to rely on dedicated bike paths (or even multimodal "trails") to get around.

Fair enough, but that's not what I said. I said locally, and neighbourhood. You elude to this later in your comment, but it seems unjust to reply, and refue my comment, while changing scope.

These are kids. They can bike locally to friends houses, or a corner store, or a non-central local strip mall, without hitting main roads.

Which you in fact agree with, later in your comment!

It doesn't need to be all or nothing, people. Biking in local neighbourhoods can be safe, and it can still be dicey on the main roads.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#72

Post by Aeolun »

blitzar wrote: post #68
btilly wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book wasn't a compilation of independent research papers. It was produced out of a compilation of interviews done to better understand millionaires. Support was defined by the wealthy parent providing financial support, whether through a stipend, gifts, or whatever. It turned out that, despite the best of intentions, such support almost inevitably wound up with destructive emotional dynamics.

> It turned out that, despite the best of intentions, such support almost inevitably wound up with destructive emotional dynamics See the list of "self made" billionaires who started with a small loan of a couple 100 mil from their parents for examples.

A few people turning out well does not negate all the ones that failed. The US has a ton of millionaires, but only a few successes.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#73

Post by peanutcrisis »

swalling wrote: post #54
btilly wrote: post #5

This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…

One important thing that the NPR story completely glosses over is the component of race and class that permeates this issue. It’s not an accident that the prototypical mom of the “free range kid” movement is white and lives in a relatively wealthy neighborhood like the one mentioned in the story. Poor black and brown women are disproportionately targeted by child welfare authorities starting literally from birth. htt…

Sociology departments in America are captured by the current moral fashion (identity politics). If it were me, I'd think twice before believing the research that you linked to.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#74

Post by D13Fd »

b112 wrote: post #17
Apocryphon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could bike, but how many neighborhoods are safely bikeable?

Every one I've ever seen. Most places I've seen, yes in the US, have bike paths, and houses are typically in a separate area from main thoroughfares. Why wouldn't a kid bike to a friend's house, or a local park?

My street is fine. But it’s a quarter mile long, and the road it connects to is nearly impassable for pedestrians or bikes. The road is narrow, curvy with steep 5-20 ft high wooded or fenced hills on either side. It has no shoulder. It’s technically a 35mph road, but cars can come around the bend at 35-50 mph at any time and you have nowhere to go. You just have to trust that they will see you and not hit you.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#75

Post by Eumenes »

swalling wrote: post #54
btilly wrote: post #5

This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…

One important thing that the NPR story completely glosses over is the component of race and class that permeates this issue. It’s not an accident that the prototypical mom of the “free range kid” movement is white and lives in a relatively wealthy neighborhood like the one mentioned in the story. Poor black and brown women are disproportionately targeted by child welfare authorities starting literally from birth. htt…

This happens everywhere, it doesn't have to do with race. I have a family member who has children in very posh and upscale neighborhood in a suburban area of NoVa. She has had neighbors call child welfare several times for her 10 year old skateboarding around town, or playing at a playground unattended with friends (literally a block away from their home). I get the vibe that alot of older residents don't want children running around because they value peace and quiet, so they call the cops/DCF when they see kids hanging w/o adults.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#76

Post by b112 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #57
b112 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without disputing that Asimov might have brought up such a concept somewhere in the series, it certainly is not a prime factor mentioned in the first novel. Quoting part of the novel, does not mean other parts do not eapouse other things. One "decline theme" was that the overall culture of the empire was in decline. And part of that, was attributed to stagnation, which exhibited as a lack of scientific change, and ad…

As I mention in the other comment, I wonder if the regurgitation of research idea was Asimov's take on far future galactic dark ages Scholasticism. Which would fit the theme of stagnation, sure.

While none of us live in a bubble, I dislike the concept that alludes to non-original thought as the basis of ideas.

He could have merely looked around, thought to the future, and derived ideas... independently, from his own thoughts on the matter.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#77

Post by beej71 »

davidkuennen wrote: post #67

When I was little (20 years ago), I left the house in the morning and came back in the evening. My parents didn't really care what I did. It was the same for all the children in our small village. We played in the forest, created tree homes, tunnels and much more. It was an incredible time which I'm certain helped me a lot in my development. Granted, I was growing up on a farm in Germany. There wasn't much traffic or…

I agree. In the 70s, I walked and rode my bicycle to school alone when I was 5. Our town was maybe 15,000 people with another 30k people in the area.

I feel very lucky to have grown up then.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#78

Post by rsaxvc »

b112 wrote: post #17
Apocryphon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could bike, but how many neighborhoods are safely bikeable?

Every one I've ever seen. Most places I've seen, yes in the US, have bike paths, and houses are typically in a separate area from main thoroughfares. Why wouldn't a kid bike to a friend's house, or a local park?

There's a bike path in my suburb, at least a mile from my house, requiring crossing two thoroughfares to reach it.

Since moving here I've effectively stopped riding because of the drivers.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#79

Post by michael1999 »

swalling wrote: post #54
btilly wrote: post #5

This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…

One important thing that the NPR story completely glosses over is the component of race and class that permeates this issue. It’s not an accident that the prototypical mom of the “free range kid” movement is white and lives in a relatively wealthy neighborhood like the one mentioned in the story. Poor black and brown women are disproportionately targeted by child welfare authorities starting literally from birth. htt…

There’s no conflict here. Laws don’t usually change until after the culture shift. They often lag the culture by years or decades.
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