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Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

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Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#71

Post by fauigerzigerk »

LindeBuzoGray wrote: post #67
imjonse wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Mandela did not get it while imprisoned and while the US and the UK were tacit supporters of the Apartheid regime. And Maria Ressa seems anti-Duterte, and pro-US if I read correctly.

Right, Mandela got it when he was being conciliatory to the government and its Western support, with other ANC elements being less so. The same with Arafat - he was conciliatory to Israel and its western support at Oslo, with Hamas and the PFLP being less so. Both were not fighting when.they got the prize, but being conciliatory.

I don't agree that Arafat was fighting any less than Narges Mohammadi when he got the Nobel Peace Prize. He didn't get the prize for surrendering (neither did Mandela but he got the prize after he had already won).

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#72

Post by AnimalMuppet »

nine_k wrote: post #41
archon1410 wrote: post #7

I feel the Nobel prize was less for fighting for women's rights, and more for fighting against an anti-American, anti-Western government. For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. I of course don't ever see it going to someone fighting against the American regime itself, and its mass surveillance and war crimes,…

I wonder.why a Peace Prize should ever go to anyone for fighting , even if the fighting is for a patently just cause. There should be a different prize, or at least a different name for it. But this ship has sailed, apparently. OTOH it's really understandable that many people value fighting for a just cause higher than peace. The easiest way to peace is often to just surrender, and have peace on the terms of an evil…

"The Nobel Prize For Doing Nothing In The Face Of An Oppressor And Calling That Peace" has far too many candidates for them to be able to pick a winner.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#73

Post by csmpltn »

sim7c00 wrote: post #51
nine_k wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder.why a Peace Prize should ever go to anyone for fighting , even if the fighting is for a patently just cause. There should be a different prize, or at least a different name for it. But this ship has sailed, apparently. OTOH it's really understandable that many people value fighting for a just cause higher than peace. The easiest way to peace is often to just surrender, and have peace on the terms of an evil…

you are right. people fight for peace, fight for freedom, whatever. People do not understand what is peace. There is only very few places in the world (1 where I know of, by chance) that actually study, what is peace. culture of peace. Peace is known not to be simply the absence of war, and so, trying to remove war isn't neccesarily moving towards peace or a culture of peace, while many things which do not remove vio…

> "There is only very few places in the world (1 where I know of, by chance) that actually study, what is peace"

Where would that be?

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#74

Post by Planktonne »

Garbleflorp wrote: post #54

[flagged]

Several of the rights in the Cairo Declaration [1] would cover women taking off the hijab. Even more would forbid beating someone to death for their clothing choices.

[1] https://www.fmreview.org/sites/fmr/files/FMRdownloads/en/FMR...

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#76

Post by brap »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #44

[flagged]

>people being free to choose the way want to live their lives

Do you think this is what the Iranians choose?

>There is high voter turnout

Are you claiming Iran has free democratic elections?

Just to put this in some perspective - Iran has an extreme shia muslim regime. Following the laws of shia islam is strictly enforced (don't wear a hijab? get beaten and thrown in jail. Homosexual? get publicly hanged from a crane). Now, how many Iranians do you think self-identify as shia muslims? The answer is around 30%. And this was before the recent country-wide mass demonstrations against the shia regime. Realistically maybe 10-20% of Iranians support this violent authoritarian regime.

Oh and we didn't even talk about the opression of women, which are, you know, about 50% of the population.

I think it's pretty funny how contrarians from the West will whitewash anything as long as it opposes what they believe is wrong with the West. You see it with the extreme right and Russia, and the extreme left and Iran. Ironically these 2 regimes are closest allies.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#77

Post by localplume »

sneak wrote: post #42
archon1410 wrote: post #7

I feel the Nobel prize was less for fighting for women's rights, and more for fighting against an anti-American, anti-Western government. For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. I of course don't ever see it going to someone fighting against the American regime itself, and its mass surveillance and war crimes,…

They gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a US president who had ordered so many drone strikes that even by the US's own admission, hundreds of children were slaughtered. It's pretty farcical.

[dead]

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#78

Post by funnyflywheel »

imjonse wrote: post #53
archon1410 wrote: post #7

I feel the Nobel prize was less for fighting for women's rights, and more for fighting against an anti-American, anti-Western government. For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. I of course don't ever see it going to someone fighting against the American regime itself, and its mass surveillance and war crimes,…

Lê_Đức_Thọ, who fought the US in Vietnam, got it in 1973 (together with Kissinger) and promptly refused it. Maybe the Nobel committee does not want to be embarrassed by a refusal again, and that is the only reason it no longer awards it to anti-western activists :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%AA_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c_Th%E1...

Thanks for the reminder that Heinz (Henry) Kissinger is still alive at age 100.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#79

Post by bnralt »

archon1410 wrote: post #7

I feel the Nobel prize was less for fighting for women's rights, and more for fighting against an anti-American, anti-Western government. For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. I of course don't ever see it going to someone fighting against the American regime itself, and its mass surveillance and war crimes,…

ElBaradei won in 2005, when he was a vocal opponent of Bush's military interventions (Obama's prize in 2009 was likewise mainly a rebuke of Bush).

Tawakkol Karman (2011) has been a vocal critic of Saudi Arabia.

Willy Brandt received his prize specifically for increasing ties with the Eastern Bloc.

In terms of prizes giving for those working against particular regimes, anti-apartheid activists have received the most (1960, 1984, 1993).

A lot of people end up making assumptions based on their own personal biases.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#80

Post by mynameishere »

brap wrote: post #76
tibbydudeza wrote: post #44

[flagged]

>people being free to choose the way want to live their lives Do you think this is what the Iranians choose? >There is high voter turnout Are you claiming Iran has free democratic elections? Just to put this in some perspective - Iran has an extreme shia muslim regime. Following the laws of shia islam is strictly enforced (don't wear a hijab? get beaten and thrown in jail. Homosexual? get publicly hanged from a crane…

It is possible to have completely above-the-board, fair elections and wind up with a set of politicians who work expressly against the interests of the people. I hope you don't consider that a point in dispute.
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