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Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

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Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#71

Post by lucb1e »

malfist wrote: post #61
lucb1e wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh sure, if it's hard to unsubscribe then I will totally use anti-spam mechanisms to block that as well. I am talking about the case where people engage the spam button for email that they (1) can unsubscribe from using the standard one-click unsubscribe link at the bottom of the email, and (2) have either explicitly signed up for or that is otherwise from a legitimate sender that complies with your local laws and wi…

It's not my duty to click an unsubscribe button if I didn't subscribe in the first place. Companies like LinkedIn decide logging in gives them consent to start spamming you. Name a single company besides maybe amazon that if you place an order, they don't automatically put you into their marketing emails? It's all spam. By definition. I didn't ask for this, you are sending it to me. I don't care how easy you make it…

> It's not my duty to click an unsubscribe button if I didn't subscribe in the first place.

Then it's also not your duty to click the spam button??

Joking aside, that's not the kind of email I am talking about. Spam is spam and should be flagged as spam. If you get benign email that complies with all the anti-spam legislation but you just don't want it, then use unsubscribe.

Using the spam button for things that are not spam muddles the data labeling and increases spam rates because the email service operators can't use it to tell what is actually spam and what is a frustrated (or perhaps simply ignorant) user.

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#72

Post by lucb1e »

jeffbee wrote: post #52
lucb1e wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google manually creates these for large senders, this is not available to just anyone. There is a standard for this called list-unsubscribe (RFC 8058), but adding the header has no purpose. I have not been able to find an email client that uses the header: Thunderbird, FairEmail, Gmail, Hotmail, and I'm not sure if I asked someone to test it in Outlook but I think so. It is recommended to add the header for lowering…

You obviously have some kind of axe to grind specifically about List-Unsubscribe but you don't understand how Google implements it. Gmail does support this header, but only for senders with high reputation. If a sender has poor reputation, the support for List-Unsubscribe isn't visible to the user for that message.

> you don't understand how Google implements it. Gmail does support this header, but only for senders with high reputation.

Then how come emails with unsubscribe buttons in the UI do not have the list-unsubscribe header set, and emails with the header do not have the button visible?

Also, I'm not sure that "you don't understand how to use the system" follows from "you can only use the system if you're an invited VIP"

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#73

Post by s17n »

lucb1e wrote: post #65
s17n wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Users do not understand the spam button is meant for spam, not for anything they don't want to receive anymore Users don't want to receive your god damned newsletter. Just stop using email as a marketing channel.

What is it with these comments? I'm not sending you a "damned" newsletter, go complain to someone else. Emails from my server are either my personal emails, or from one of various websites/tools which can send you emails, for example to notify you of when a player you chose to follow uploaded a new level, when the local river is exceptionally low or rising sharply or whatnot, when security updates were applied... thi…

It was because of this line:

> So if someone wants to annoy you, they can sign up for your newsletter

I'm sure you aren't the problem, but in general, every time you do business with any company they sign you up for marketing garbage on an opt-out basis. I personally do actually use the "proper unsubscribe mechanism" on these things but I have absolutely no sympathy for them and I hope Google just decides to unilaterally end this practice.

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#74

Post by sScTE9qEMCxEk34 »

lucb1e wrote: post #66
sScTE9qEMCxEk34 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here we go, this is the meat. So if someone wants to annoy you, they can sign up for your newsletter and hit the spam button and everyone will stop receiving all email from your site (such as signup confirmations, password resets... you're basically out of business). Except everyone already does that and the bar is, presumably, significantly higher than one person. > the spam button is meant for spam, not for anyth…

> What you're seeing is that the spam button is meant for spam, i.e. anything they don't want to receive. Trust me, they didn't want to receive it in the first place. Third reply I read to my comment, third accusation. What makes you think I am some sort of soulless adfarm person? What in my comment gives you that impression? Trust me, if you receive an email from my server, you want to read it because: you asked for…

Then why are you so worried about people clicking spam? If they want to read your email, they're not going to mark your email as spam.

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#75

Post by gwbas1c »

lucb1e wrote: post #68
gwbas1c wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or that is otherwise from a legitimate sender that complies with your local laws and will honor the unsubscription. I think your (luvb1e's) issue is that you don't understand the fundamental definition of SPAM: SPAM is anything that the sender (not the recipient) defines as SPAM. For example, a few years ago I bought something from L. L. Bean. In addition to my order confirmation, shipping confirmation, thank you e…

> It's my inbox, so I define what I consider SPAM That's like saying: it's my back yard, I'll decide which laws apply here and who can deal drugs here It's nice to decide on one's own what legislation should look like, but that muddles the detection of real spam. You are signaling to your email provider that this email should never have been sent and that the sender is dishonestly sending garbage around. If the email…

> real spam

The daily flyer that I never signed up for is "real spam." It doesn't matter who sends it.

You can't go and say, "oh, we're not spoofing and harvesting so we're not spam." That's just writing your own loophole so you can hijack my inbox and turn it into a billboard.

And remember, I bear the burden of my inbox being full of email that I never subscribed to and will never read. Pushing the spam button has no consequence to me, but hopefully it will trigger consequences for somebody who thinks that my inbox should be their billboard.

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