Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April • Hacker News Board

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#71

Post by skeaker » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:48 PM UTC

innocenat wrote: post #39

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

I am not sure how that would work. "Artificial Intelligence a Modern Approach" 1st Edition is no longer available. Should it be allowed to be freely shared when 4th edition is still on sale? The changes aren't that minor, either.

A new edition from an author indicates that they believe there is enough new information to justify selling you a whole separate book. If that is the case they should agree that the 1st edition is fair game since it won't have the same information. If they protest, well... Was the 4th edition ever necessary to begin with if the 1st edition is just as good? In cases like that I still support this idea because editions like this absolutely are used to gouge students at times, and this would stop that dead in its tracks.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#72

Post by skeaker » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:50 PM UTC

12907835202 wrote: post #30

derstander wrote: post #16

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

But the value of something is often its scarcity... The owner of Once Upon a Time in Shaolin by Wu Tang would be pretty mad if it was freely shared because it couldn't be bought or rented. Context from Wikipedia for those who don't know it: "Once Upon a Time in Shaolin is the seventh studio album by the American hip hop group Wu-Tang Clan. Only one physical copy of the album was created, with no ability to download o…

Let him be mad, then. I don't know why you think the masses should care if one greedy guy gets upset.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#73

Post by bentley » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #46

frostiness wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the fault of the public domain or a reaction to the fact that Winnie the Pooh was copyrighted for so long? The appeal of horror Winnie the Pooh in almost every single instance has been due to the novelty that it's even possible to do legally, and somewhat as an act of rebellion against the company arguably responsible for holding it hostage for so long.

I don't think so. The appeal is in spoiling childhood innocence and not getting sued for it. Case in point: Peppa the Pig had problems with exploitative knockoff videos being uploaded for years, that were deliberately designed to be offensive and shocking. If Mario went public domain tomorrow, I absolutely guarantee you that 90% of what goes online or gets made will be content intended to shock, traumatize, or offend…

You’re extrapolating a huge amount of shock content from just one or two examples, but no strong evidence. Sure, I’ve heard of Blood and Honey, but that’s the only nasty Pooh derivative that’s made its way to my consciousness. Comparing to other public domain properties is instructive: I also remember when Pride and Prejudice and Zombies came out, but I don’t remember any other gory Jane Austen adaptations, and Zombies is rather low‐profile compared to the more popular adaptations such as the BBC series, the 2005 film, or Bridget Jones’s Diary. Or compare to Sherlock Holmes, which despite the Doyle estate desperately holding onto every shred of copyright to the last, has had many good “unauthorized” adaptations in recent years.

And even if 90% of public domain adaptations were crap (a reasonable number for copyrighted content as well, if we believe Sturgeon†), I think a single unconstrained Mari0 (https://stabyourself.net/mari0/) is worth ten gross Mario fanfics that I’ll never see without looking for them.

† Sturgeon’s Law: “90% of everything is crap.”

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#74

Post by mynameisvlad » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 4:58 PM UTC

bakugo wrote: post #70

mynameisvlad wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think a person’s cartridge of Pokemon Sun is going to stop working after this? Online services means multiplayer games won’t work anymore, but single player physical games won’t magically stop working just because the online services shut down.

> Do you think a person’s cartridge of Pokemon Sun is going to stop working after this? No, but some of the game's features will stop working. It's not a huge deal for Pokemon because it's primarily a singleplayer game, but that isn't the case for all games. Splatoon, for example, is a primarily online Wii U game that will no longer be playable at all after this shutdown (they had already shut down the servers for th…

Do you expect companies to keep their online servers running indefinitely? For the benefit of a few dozen players playing at a time, at best? Splatoon was released almost a decade ago, barely has any players active, offers a single player mode and has had two sequels released since.

Also, if online functionality was available 50 years ago, the exact same problem would have hit Atari games. The technology just hadn't matured enough back then.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#75

Post by spondylosaurus » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

_aavaa_ wrote: post #58

ibejoeb wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I don't think I agree with the philosophy of it, even if the outcome is good for consumers. For one, just because something is not available for purchase does not mean that the creator is not deprived of the would-be revenue. An existing owner of a copy of the media should have access to it for the duration, but I can't get to why it should become freely shareable. Secondly, that puts an unfair burden on creator…

> An existing owner of a copy of the media should have access to it for the duration, but I can't get to why it should become freely shareable. Because copyright laws (in the US at least) are (supposed to) provide to creators a limited time monopoly on their work in order to "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts". Getting the right to squat on a piece of art that you claimed copyright over but not doing…

Plus, when a game is out of print, any third-party resales don't benefit the original copyright holder anyway. Nintendo doesn't profit off those $120 SoulSilver cartridges for sale on eBay.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#76

Post by HoppyHaus » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

raytopia wrote: post #26

CM30 wrote: post #7

Fortunately there is a fan run project that's working on recreating the online services for these consoles/games, in the same way that Wiimmfi has gotten the DS and Wii's multiplayer functionality up and running. See the Pretendo project here: https://pretendo.network/ It's not exactly feature perfect yet, but 2024 gives them time to fix up many of the features they haven't gotten working, and hopefully expand suppor…

I know it's not realistic but it'd be cool if pretendo made a e-shop replacement.

There is something just like that for one of the largest 3ds piracy sites. I won't link to it, but it isn't hard to find

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#77

Post by bentley » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 5:07 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #74

bakugo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think a person’s cartridge of Pokemon Sun is going to stop working after this? No, but some of the game's features will stop working. It's not a huge deal for Pokemon because it's primarily a singleplayer game, but that isn't the case for all games. Splatoon, for example, is a primarily online Wii U game that will no longer be playable at all after this shutdown (they had already shut down the servers for th…

Do you expect companies to keep their online servers running indefinitely? For the benefit of a few dozen players playing at a time, at best? Splatoon was released almost a decade ago, barely has any players active, offers a single player mode and has had two sequels released since. Also, if online functionality was available 50 years ago, the exact same problem would have hit Atari games. The technology just hadn't…

My complaint is not that companies shut down their servers, but that reverse engineering to create your own compatible server is likely to get you sued and forcibly shut down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#78

Post by Willish42 » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 5:10 PM UTC

As sad as this news makes me for the preservation of eShop stuff, the modding community tends to rally around Nintendo products and I have pretty high faith that things will be preserved one way or another by the awesome work of modders and the emulation community.

It's a sad state of affairs for copyright law, but generally by the time Nintendo shuts down "official" access to content for a console generation, rom files are readily available from a few google searches and a relatively well-thought-out and simple modding process for the hardware.

There are many first party nintendo games and remakes that still haven't made it to newer consoles like the Switch yet. Hopefully Nintendo comes up with better backwards compatibility in the future for current Switch titles, but assuming they won't as they often don't, piracy and emulation tend to fill in the gaps pretty well in my experience.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#79

Post by jncfhnb » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 5:10 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #11

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #3

This an evidence of gaping holes in digital consumer rights. People bought eShop software and physical hardware that they can no longer use or update. Regulators should force companies to open source any games and associated server software that consumers paid to "own", yet companies are no longer willing to maintain.

Honestly, I hate blockchains, but I feel like they're the ultimate solution for digital goods. I don't want to own NFTs for their own sake as "speculative assets" or "stores of value" or nonsense like that, but an NFT that is my certificate of ownership of a copy of like a videogame or a streamable movie, etc. would just make sense. Combine that with a requirement that (a) binaries be freely redistributable, and (b)…

Nobody is doubting ownership. The problem is your (a).

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#80

Post by bakugo » Wed, Oct 04, 2023, 5:12 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #74

bakugo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think a person’s cartridge of Pokemon Sun is going to stop working after this? No, but some of the game's features will stop working. It's not a huge deal for Pokemon because it's primarily a singleplayer game, but that isn't the case for all games. Splatoon, for example, is a primarily online Wii U game that will no longer be playable at all after this shutdown (they had already shut down the servers for th…

Do you expect companies to keep their online servers running indefinitely? For the benefit of a few dozen players playing at a time, at best? Splatoon was released almost a decade ago, barely has any players active, offers a single player mode and has had two sequels released since. Also, if online functionality was available 50 years ago, the exact same problem would have hit Atari games. The technology just hadn't…

> Do you expect companies to keep their online servers running indefinitely?

I expect the games I paid for to continue to be playable with the same features they had when I bought them, I don't care what the developer thinks or how many other people are playing it. If they don't want to host the servers anymore, they should give me a way to host my own. Plenty of multiplayer PC games released 2 decades ago can still be played online just fine today because the developers included the option to host your own games.