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People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

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Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#71

Post by HDThoreaun »

cft wrote: post #37

Also Japan's tobacco consumption rank is 33, while the US' is 68, and yet it's average life expectancy is much longer (4 vs 58) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_consumption_by_count... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_ex...

There is a huge stigma against being fat in Japan. The government has instituted a policy that fines every member of a team if anyone is overweight which leads to heavy peer pressure to lose weight. This has lead to an adult obesity rate below 4%, in the US it's 30%.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#72

Post by prmoustache »

zo1 wrote: post #57
prmoustache wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the issues are the consequences of racism and far rights politics and supporter, not immigration.

Are they? Even if it were the case, there are a lot of people in Europe that simple don't want or like black/brown people and people of other religions. Most people I interact with that trust me enough to open up to me say as much. They're just being bullied and gaslit by niceness and the media.

> there are a lot of people in Europe that simple don't want or like black/brown people and people of other religions.

And the only answer you can give them is: deal with it, they are already here, have all rights to be here and will stay.

It makes me think about those retards who think they can forbid homosexuality. You like it or not gays exists, have been for millions of years and will forever. Even in countries when it is repressed.

Even oysters are smarter than those people you are talking to.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#73

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #63
Tor3 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not impossible. Other countries could. Also remember that culture is a living thing, it's not static. It changes and adjusts and adapts and incorporates. My little hometown was just us "natives" in my childhood, now at the other end of time it has people and languages from more than a hundred countries, and we're all "natives" to this town. Very different from before, but much more interesting and I don't feel we hav…

Heterogenous cultures all end up looking kind of the same. Chaotic, disorderly, no common rules, little common ground. Like New York City or London or Toronto. Great for people who like novelty. But utterly different from Tokyo, or Salt Lake City, or other places where cultural homogeneity enables a sophisticated set of shared rules and norms.

https://theutahcompact.com/

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#74

Post by rayiner »

Tor3 wrote: post #67
rayiner wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heterogenous cultures all end up looking kind of the same. Chaotic, disorderly, no common rules, little common ground. Like New York City or London or Toronto. Great for people who like novelty. But utterly different from Tokyo, or Salt Lake City, or other places where cultural homogeneity enables a sophisticated set of shared rules and norms.

I don't know about that. In my experience, with smaller places I'm familiar with, the cultural input only enriches, there's no degradation (though I am of course aware of certain areas of certain countries where they failed to handle immigration correctly and created isolated ghettos - that never goes well. But it does not have to be that way). "sophisticated set of shared rules and norms" - I don't know what that's…

> “sophisticated set of shared rules and norms" - I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I definitely get a bad feeling from a sentence like that though

Why?!

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#75

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #73
rayiner wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heterogenous cultures all end up looking kind of the same. Chaotic, disorderly, no common rules, little common ground. Like New York City or London or Toronto. Great for people who like novelty. But utterly different from Tokyo, or Salt Lake City, or other places where cultural homogeneity enables a sophisticated set of shared rules and norms.

https://theutahcompact.com/

[flagged]

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#76

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #75
tptacek wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://theutahcompact.com/

[flagged]

Gross. Anyways: after Jewish people, Mormons are the most pro-immigration religious group in the United States. Consider not using them as an example for the virtues of xenophobia, especially when making appeals to their distinctive culture.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#77

Post by filoleg »

srsqsonyl wrote: post #11
mortureb wrote: post #2

It’s sad to see a country just fade away. I hope they can convince their people to breed more or let in more immigrants while still maintaining their culture.

Wacky take since every country is a Ship of Theseus. Japan of today is nothing like Japan of 100 years ago. Every nation has already faded away multiple times.

> Wacky take since every country is a Ship of Theseus.

Yes and no. It is one thing where that ship is uses immigration as a source of "replacement parts", and another thing when it doesn't. The immigration method replaces old parts of the ship with different kinds of parts, the non-immigration method replaces old parts with just more modern/slightly different versions of the same parts.

US and the likes are absolutely a ship of theseus in my book, but Japan doesn't feel like it would be the same "kind" of a ship of theseus, given how ethnically homogenous and anti-immigration it is.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to argue here for which approach is "better" (considering that one approach being objectively better than the other in absolute terms is probably not even a thing). Gotta keep in mind that the originally immigrant-based ship that is the US isn't the same as the heavily homogenous ship that is Japan at all. Frankly, I don't know the answer to this, and neither was that the point of my reply. I just don't want the comment section to devolve into arguing which is better (immigration-based ship of theseus vs. a ship that is not affected by immigration almost at all). My original point was that "not all ships of theseus are the same kind", so one approach would likely not work the same way when applied to two radically different types of a ship.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#78

Post by RestlessMind »

rcme wrote: post #13

I always find it weird that people lament population decline. Japan still has a lot of people. Sure, that number is going down now, but you can’t look at the trend and extrapolate that number down to zero. And as the population declines, the number of resources per citizen increases. So people may be better off than before. The largest dangers to Japanese society lie in the transition period, where many elderly peopl…

> Japan still has a lot of people.

But what type of people? Are they dependents (old, children, disabled) or independent ones who can support the rest of the society? If the ratio of workers : dependents gets unhealthy, a society is doomed. In spite of all the technological progress, we still need humans for a lot of things - long term care, food, entertainment, security etc. If there are no young people, who is going to do all that?

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#79

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #76
rayiner wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Gross. Anyways: after Jewish people, Mormons are the most pro-immigration religious group in the United States. Consider not using them as an example for the virtues of xenophobia, especially when making appeals to their distinctive culture.

Mormon society is well-functioning for the same reason that Japanese society is well-functioning. People share common values and culture which enables a high-level of social reinforcement of societal rules and norms. The Japanese realize that immigration would destroy their society. The Mormons don't, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I find the implicit moral assertion in your post inexplicable. Are you positing that you can have a high trust, high cohesion, orderly society that accepts lots of immigrants? If so, show me one. Otherwise, your position seems to be that immigration is a moral requirement in and of itself, regardless of the consequences it has for societal order.

Re: People aged 80 and over top 10% of Japan's population for first time

#80

Post by Tor3 »

ddd00001 wrote: post #60
Tor3 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not impossible. Other countries could. Also remember that culture is a living thing, it's not static. It changes and adjusts and adapts and incorporates. My little hometown was just us "natives" in my childhood, now at the other end of time it has people and languages from more than a hundred countries, and we're all "natives" to this town. Very different from before, but much more interesting and I don't feel we hav…

I don't have a dog in this fight, but you just said "not impossible", then admitted that culture would change with influx of migrants.

I didn't first realize that you were commenting my post - but I did say two things: 1) There's no such thing as a culture which doesn't change. Culture is a living thing. It changes, even if you never have a single immigrant. My parent's culture wasn't the same as mine, even back when there were no immigrants and hardly anyone coming from elsewhere in the country. 2) I also clarified in a later post that to me the culture is enhanced, i.e. there's more to it than before.

I definitely don't have any feeling of loss of culture, I guess that's my point.

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