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Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

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Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#71

Post by tester756 »

daft_pink wrote: post #12
andrewstuart wrote: post #5

There's lots of people who take this sort of thing as reason to criminalize cannabis. Regardless of the problems, it is still a personal health issue. Criminalizing causes more harm than good.

I don't think people should be put in jail for cannabis. However, we shouldn't be devoting our tier 1 retail space or having startups with massive advertising budgets pushing it. It should be sold as a generic drug by pharmacies that make most of their business from other drugs not dispensary entrepreneurs creating massive retail brands like alcohol.

>having startups with massive advertising budgets pushing it.

Hah, in my country 10-15 years ago there was huge brainwash movement pushing pro-marihuana narration, mostly music/rap/etc communities

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#72

Post by alchemist1e9 »

paulmd wrote: post #52
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like society has trouble facing the truth about one of it’s popular vices. The empirical evidence is overwhelming that there are very serious public health issues, yet so many people have an extremely biased vested interest in either continuing their vice, profiting from others, or simply getting votes. It will probably go down in 20 years as a disgraceful period of denialism, the promotion and legalization and…

Nah, people just realize that it’s not worth continuing to fight the drug war and kill and imprison hundreds of thousands just because little skylar turned into a bit of a pothead for a couple years. This is exactly the kind of pro-drug war astroturfing GP is talking about. Think of the children, think of the health risks! The risk has always been non-zero, but it’s not high either. And the net reduction in dead dogs…

Nonsense. I don’t particularly focus on legality. I’m more interested in people having correct information.

I suspect you support cigarettes having scary mandatory warnings.

Keep it legal if you like, I don’t care.

But at least inform the public and require warnings etc. The worst part is the general population even believes cannabis or “medical” marijuana has “health” benefits.

Ok but make sure you tell them that maybe 2-5% of you will trigger your predisposition to severe mental health disorders. Disorders we empirically know you would much less likely develop if you don’t use this “medical” drug abuse substance.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#73

Post by avodonosov »

scythe wrote: post #35

>These findings may inform policies regarding the legal status and control of cannabis use. But not without NNTs. For depression, OR = 1.8, NNT = 12 (assuming 10% lifetime incidence, this is very hard to estimate due to the difficulty in diagnosis). For bipolar disorder, OR = 3, NNT = 25. This is before accounting for any reverse causation: roughly 80% of incidence of BPD is associated with genetic variation.

Could you elaborate?

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#74

Post by user3939382 »

Just my personal take, wouldn’t seek to push others to adopt it.

Smoking weed hurts your ability to think and learn. If you have responsibilities to children or shareholders etc you shouldn’t be doing it.

If you don’t and it doesn’t hurt others who are relying on you have at it, but still sparingly as not to be abusing your body and mind.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#75

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

tptacek wrote: post #69
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They love to tack on syllables as if it will be more P.C. than "pot abuse"

No, "cannabis use disorder" does not seem to be a medical euphemism for any consumption of cannabis at all.

No not what none what now?

> In the 2013 revision for the DSM-5, DSM-IV abuse and dependence were combined into cannabis use disorder. The legal problems criterion (from cannabis abuse) has been removed, and the craving criterion was newly added, resulting in a total of eleven criteria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_use_disorder

You're trying to refute something I didn't say. I said that "cannabis abuse" became "cannabis use disorder" which is less offensive to pot addicts, but also contains two extra syllables, does that make sense?

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#76

Post by saulpw »

senttoschool wrote: post #32

I just quit weed after getting addicted for almost 2 years. There is a large community of people who are trying to quit: /r/leaves The article is nothing new to me. Read a few posts from the subreddit and you'd see a pattern. Three weeks ago, I was pro-weed recreation legalization. Today, I'm strongly anti recreation use. Edit: I'm not against decriminalization of weed. I'm highly against pro-recreational use. I'm ag…

Track the timeline of your personal evolution on this topic as you progress in your journey. I'm a bit more than a week ahead of you, and I'm coming to see the problem as high THC content. Low THC (<10%) and high CBD may mitigate your (justified) concerns about recreational use. Of course as it's become legal in more places, Big Industry is showing its perpetual tendency to create higher potency strains with more addictive potential. Stay tuned..

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#77

Post by aeturnum »

daft_pink wrote: post #6
tptacek wrote: post #2

"Cannabis Use Disorder", not "Cannabis use". The appropriate title is "Cannabis Use Disorder and Subsequent Risk of Psychotic and Nonpsychotic Unipolar Depression and Bipolar Disorder".

Have you ever met someone with schizophrenia? I would never engage in any activity that increases the likelihood of a permanent life ruining mental illness!

Yes I have! I've dated someone even. Schizophrenia covers a pretty wide set of symptom sets but I would not call it flatly "life ruining" at all. Most people with the diagnosis have the potential to lead full, happy lives (that might have more inexplicable episodes than your life).

I'd also ask you to try to avoid further stigmatizing an already misunderstood condition. It's ok to be unsettled by symptoms of schizophrenia and want to avoid developing them yourself! But let's be too dismissive of the lives of those who happen to be diagnosed with a condition.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#78

Post by Vecr »

claytongulick wrote: post #50
daft_pink wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever met someone with schizophrenia? I would never engage in any activity that increases the likelihood of a permanent life ruining mental illness!

I have. I worked inpatient psychiatry for ~6 years. All substances you consume have non-zero risk associated with them. Including seemingly benign things like milk. It's the job of every person to understand their body and to do a risk/reward analysis on anything you consume. For many, the benefits of THC/CBD/cannaboids outweigh the risks. > I would never engage in any activity that increases the likelihood of a perm…

Can you explain about the milk? Is it just the sugar content or something else? I'm genuinely interested, I've never heard about that before.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#79

Post by PheonixPharts »

l33t7332273 wrote: post #37
sandofsky wrote: post #26

I can't see the full study methodology without an account. That said… The challenge with running studies ethically is that you can't split your test groups into two groups and somehow induce cannabis use disorder and see if major depression, bipolar, etc results from it. Rather, you can see if the people who naturally develop the disorder also have those problems. The flaw in this reasoning is that people who develop…

How is correlation vs causation determined in other studies where a control group cannot be used?

It's important to recognize that we've never successfully answered Hume's general skepticism about the existence of causality as something that is real outside of our own minds. So causality can't be positively confirmed to exist at all, let alone be detected and confirmed through statistics.

Before you dismiss that is philosophical non-sense, causality is closely related to the "Arrow of Time" which is considered an unsolved problem in physics [0]. From what we've observed time appears to be the only asymmetric physical process, largely due to entropy (that is you can immediately tell if a video of a jar breaking is being played backwards because we don't expected a jar to "fall together"). There are Quantum processes, for example, that are time symmetric, that is playing a video of these processes would look the same reversed and forward.

That said, as someone who does a lot of statistics, in practice what we do is model the causal process with a directed acyclic graph and see how well our models behave under causal assumptions. These work okay for answering practical questions about does A cause B. By controlling for correlating variables we can see the impact on what we believe to be a causal variable when we condition on these other correlating factors.

Worth mention that nearly all of the work is done by linear models in practice.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#80

Post by thsksbd »

eep_social wrote: post #21
daft_pink wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people should be put in jail for cannabis. However, we shouldn't be devoting our tier 1 retail space or having startups with massive advertising budgets pushing it. It should be sold as a generic drug by pharmacies that make most of their business from other drugs not dispensary entrepreneurs creating massive retail brands like alcohol.

Sure let’s please do the same for alcohol and caffeine.

Could we start a conversation on the externalities of alcohol consumption?

That'd be great. Lets start by putting a 100% sales tax + $1/50ml ethanol on alcohol. Let's see how inelastic alcohol consumption really is.

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