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Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

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71–80 of 91 posts

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#71
post #6

It was a good read. However, other than the speedy OS upgrade, and maybe a lot of ports, I'm not sure what the "better 20 years ago" parts were, but maybe that was more of a random line / opinion type thing. Either way fun read and visually that laptop is still pretty pleasing. I love my MBA but ... wouldn't mind if it was a bit more organic looking like the G3.

better 20 years ago: doesn't spy on you, doesn't auto-update and wipe your external drive, doesn't have constant UX regressions in every new version, doesn't harass you to sign up to cloud services, doesn't hit a network service to validate every application you run, can actually be repaired yourself, can actually be upgraded yourself... etc.

>doesn't harass you to sign up to cloud services

That's not really true. The Os9 installer actually invites you register your computer with apple (and maybe even sign up for an apple account, been a hot minute since I've seen the dialogue). But you can just click through it if you don't want to.

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve spent years trying to get back to the sub-12” notebooks of that era. I’ve recently settled on using an iPad Pro 10 inch. I would prefer a proper OS but 95% of what I do I can do with iOS.

I still use my 2011 11” MacBook Air. Only had to change the battery 5 years ago. iPad with keyboard just added one more device to charge.

Now that machine was very slow IIRC. Glad it works for you!

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#73
post #65
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, it's oft-remarked but it's extremely silly how much memory and CPU usage have been inflated over the years. 256MB was just fine for gaming in the early days of XP. windows 98 or windows 2000 could run pretty nicely on like, 64MB - a lot of people ran windows 95 on 16mb even. that's a modern, multitasking desktop OS! and today you can't boot shit on 16MB.even raspbian or something is going to croak even with XFC…

> a lot of people ran windows 95 on 16mb even. that's a modern, multitasking desktop OS! I ran Windows 3.0 on a 16MHz 386sx with 5MB of RAM and a 40MB disk. That's with a graphical word processor, PostScript Fonts, and a set of speedy graphical development tools. (Turbo Pascal for Windows) In today's world, you'd be hard pressed to find many embedded devices with such minimal specs [1], but in 1991 it was a useful an…

I know, but windows 3.1 looked like windows 3.1. Windows 98 at least looks reasonably modern, like system 7.5+ or system 8 level fit and finish or whatever. Windows 2000 definitely is 90% of the way there in terms of UX. Windows XP really looks more or less like windows 10 if you apply classicshell and turn off the theme, or whatever.

one of those is 64mb to run really nicely, one is 256mb at the start and probably 2GB+ by the end, and the last one is like, you really probably want at least 16, 8 is getting to be a scant spec choice even today. Going for 2x32gb is less than $100 now! (good time to buy, flash and DRAM are glutted and this won't last forever)

NT was solid enough as a UI (although iirc NT 3.5 was sort of "3.11 and a half") but by NT 4 and win2000 it had pretty much emerged into the modern UX. And Win2000 still ran on peanuts by modern standards. I never used NT but my dad generally thought highly of it afaik.

I suppose there's an interesting parallel between macos trying to shed cooperative multitaking (and the legacy of the pre-32 bit ROM) with windows 6/7 and windows finally maturing in the 3.1-95 and NT-win2000 era with shedding the legacy of DOS and the low-level x86 poking. OSs seemed to hit a point in that era where it was no longer tolerable to support their legacy shit forever from the hobby-hardware era.

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#74
post #57
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see Apple revisit this form factor with the much more capable Apple Silicon processors. I had the 12in 2017 Macbook, and it was just about perfect in every way except performance. A remarkable little machine.

The current MBAs are actually fairly close to this category of laptop: 12 inch Powerbooks: 4.6 lbs., 1.18" H x 10.9" W x 8.6" D 12 inch Macbook: 2.03 lbs., 0.14-0.52" H x 11.04" W x 7.74" D Current MBA M2: 2.7 lbs., 0.44" H x 11.97" W x 8.46" D So widest of them all, in the middle for weight and depth.

I wish Apple make Air lighter. It's no longer a lightweight laptop in the market, despite it's fanless.

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#75
post #41

I think the best PowerPC based apple laptop was the Powerbook G4 titanium. It's pretty much a design classic, was lightweight, and ran OS9. It was I think the first Mac that didn't feel like a massive compromise when running a laptop vs a desktop machine. It introduced widescreen displays, and the 1Ghz model even came with a DVD writer if I remember. It struggled with some design problems, notably that the hinges fai…

This laptop was destined to be an all-time classic, but they could never get the G4 to perform well in a laptop. They promised much, delivered little. They never were able to deliver a G5 laptop. And then Apple went Intel, one of the greatest WTFs in recent memory.

It was a WTF but a hugely positive one the way I remember it. For the first 5 years or so at least.

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#76
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still use my 2011 11” MacBook Air. Only had to change the battery 5 years ago. iPad with keyboard just added one more device to charge.

Now that machine was very slow IIRC. Glad it works for you!

It’s perfect for Scrivener, which is the most I need on it.

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#77
post #41

I think the best PowerPC based apple laptop was the Powerbook G4 titanium. It's pretty much a design classic, was lightweight, and ran OS9. It was I think the first Mac that didn't feel like a massive compromise when running a laptop vs a desktop machine. It introduced widescreen displays, and the 1Ghz model even came with a DVD writer if I remember. It struggled with some design problems, notably that the hinges fai…

This laptop was destined to be an all-time classic, but they could never get the G4 to perform well in a laptop. They promised much, delivered little. They never were able to deliver a G5 laptop. And then Apple went Intel, one of the greatest WTFs in recent memory.

How was it a WTF

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#78

My favorite Mac laptop was my first one, a 12" G4 Powerbook. Perfect in every way. I still miss that laptop, used it up until OS X Tiger went EOL, and even a little past that with TenFourFox browser.

Same here. It was the first “really nice” feeling computer hardware I had

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#79
post #73
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people ran windows 95 on 16mb even. that's a modern, multitasking desktop OS! I ran Windows 3.0 on a 16MHz 386sx with 5MB of RAM and a 40MB disk. That's with a graphical word processor, PostScript Fonts, and a set of speedy graphical development tools. (Turbo Pascal for Windows) In today's world, you'd be hard pressed to find many embedded devices with such minimal specs [1], but in 1991 it was a useful an…

I know, but windows 3.1 looked like windows 3.1. Windows 98 at least looks reasonably modern, like system 7.5+ or system 8 level fit and finish or whatever. Windows 2000 definitely is 90% of the way there in terms of UX. Windows XP really looks more or less like windows 10 if you apply classicshell and turn off the theme, or whatever. one of those is 64mb to run really nicely, one is 256mb at the start and probably 2…

> I know, but windows 3.1 looked like windows 3.1.

There were shells even available before Windows 3 that provided a folder style desktop metaphor. HP NewWave immediately comes to mind, and it ran on very limited hardware.

> NT was solid enough as a UI (although iirc NT 3.5 was sort of "3.11 and a half")

NT predated Windows 95. If you weren't paying attention, NT 3.1 and 3.5 looked essentially identical to Windows 3.1. Just with a totally different (much better) implementation and dramatically higher system requirements. They also enabled "32-bit" code, which made it easier to access the large amounts of data needed for image and video manipulation.

The higher system requirements of NT are what motivated Microsoft to also build rudimentary 32-bit support into classic Windows. This started out as Win32s, which enabled Windows 3.1 to run 32-bit apps written to a very strict subset of the Win32 API. Win32s then evolved into the 32-bit support offered by Windows 95, but even then, Windows 95 was a 16/32-bit hybrid. This let Microsoft advertise 4MB system requirements for 95, as opposed to the 16-32 for NT.

> but by NT 4 and win2000 it had pretty much emerged into the modern UX.

NT4's big innovation was to take the new 95 UI and put it on the NT kernel. 2000 was a big step forward, but mainly stability and enterprise featurres.

> And Win2000 still ran on peanuts by modern standards.

IIRC, I ran it usefully on a 256MB P3.

> I never used NT but my dad generally thought highly of it afaik.

I used it for a while, but really only NT4 through about XP. I remember it being a dramatic improvement over 3.x/95 in terms of both features and stability.

Where the Microsoft OS's fall short IMO is that Microsoft has had the resources to pursue all sorts of various designs over the years, but have lacked the coherency of vision to make a product that really feels like it holds together as a consistent whole. The capabilities are there, and in some ways better than Unix, but it's never felt quite right, at least to me.

Re: Greatest “Classic” Mac Laptop: Powerbook G3 Pismo (2021)

#80
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people ran windows 95 on 16mb even. that's a modern, multitasking desktop OS! I ran Windows 3.0 on a 16MHz 386sx with 5MB of RAM and a 40MB disk. That's with a graphical word processor, PostScript Fonts, and a set of speedy graphical development tools. (Turbo Pascal for Windows) In today's world, you'd be hard pressed to find many embedded devices with such minimal specs [1], but in 1991 it was a useful an…

I feel like I got a little glimpse of that 90s power scaling when I upgraded from a hand-me-down PowerPC 603ev 200mhz Performa to a PowerPC 400Mhz iMac. The increase in power and responsiveness was well beyond what the increase in clock speed might suggest. Conversely though, I was surprised by how far an LC 575 with 33mhz 68LC040 I was tinkering with once was able to be pushed, even without hijinks like upgrade card…

> I feel like I got a little glimpse of that 90s power scaling when I upgraded from a hand-me-down PowerPC 603ev 200mhz Performa to a PowerPC 400Mhz iMac

My first computer upgrade was from a 4.77MHz 8088 to a 16MHz 386SX. Easily over an order of magnitude improvement. Next two upgrades were in the x3-4 range, and after that point I stopped caring. (The upgrade after those two was another x3, but I sold it after a few months and bought a laptop with half the power but would always be with me.)

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