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9/11 in Realtime

911realtime.org

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Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#71

Post by enterprise_cog »

adrianmonk wrote: post #58
ilaksh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the intended effect. This is the context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda War is strategic. But soldiers won't kill for strategic reasons. They will fight when given an ethical basis. The objective truth never provides this.

Intended by who? Are you saying the US government knew it meant war and had the foresight (and bandwidth) to arrange a coordinated propaganda campaign on the spot? People just being naturally angry seems like a simpler and perfectly sufficient explanation. We humans are pretty much hardwired to respond like that: when we believe we've been wronged, a special brain mode kicks in that pushes us toward taking action (id…

What a coincidence that raw anger led to enabling the plans of the Project for a new American century.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#72

Post by civilitty »

swozey wrote: post #8
causi wrote: post #3

If you want to get a handle on how the War on Terror started and how everybody felt about it, I highly recommend listening to some of the live radio shows from that morning, such as the Howard Stern show. You look back now and question how we could've let it get so out of hand, but watching people react to it in real time takes you right back to the emotions it triggered. I don't think I've ever felt that degree of c…

I don't have the time to dig around for examples but reading IRC logs (which I mention in another comment) is really ... interesting. I haven't read them in years but I remember the vitriol toward Muslims being absolutely astonishing. But it was ye olde 2000s..

> I haven't read them in years but I remember the vitriol toward Muslims being absolutely astonishing. But it was ye olde 2000s..

Not only has the vitriol not gone away, the targets have vastly expanded. Go read the worldnews subreddit coverage of the war in Ukraine, for example: lots of talk about "Russian scum" and other dehumanization of the enemy upvoted to the top.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#73

Post by sanderjd »

pjc50 wrote: post #27
causi wrote: post #3

If you want to get a handle on how the War on Terror started and how everybody felt about it, I highly recommend listening to some of the live radio shows from that morning, such as the Howard Stern show. You look back now and question how we could've let it get so out of hand, but watching people react to it in real time takes you right back to the emotions it triggered. I don't think I've ever felt that degree of c…

It was obvious to me, a Brit, that there would be massive American retaliation against whichever country was linked to this - and I said so in the office where we had all broken off work to crowd round the TV or refresh news websites. Then a second plane hit. (I incorrectly guessed it was the PLO responsible) > That week, many of the people I know would've been happy to launch nuclear weapons at every population cent…

I still remember the short period of time when it wasn't clear someone had done it on purpose, or the slightly longer period of time when it wasn't clear who had done it.

Sadly, it would have been much better for the country and the world, if it had been a domestic group of some kind. Still really bad, but not as bad.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#74

Post by enterprise_cog »

mc32 wrote: post #28
ilaksh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the intended effect. This is the context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda War is strategic. But soldiers won't kill for strategic reasons. They will fight when given an ethical basis. The objective truth never provides this.

You can feed them hashish or whatever and turn people into berserkers. Also, in mercenaries people do it for other reasons. Anyhow, when you look at the elated reaction from people in some areas of the world when it happened, one can see why people might react to that reaction with seething vengeance in mind.

You can see the ignorance of the people in this country from that anger. Those people celebrating were on the receiving end of American terrorism abroad.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#75

Post by tekla »

I was a kid living in the Bronx that day.

I remember parents picking their kids up for no explained reason, the fucking TV cart showing the news, and going outside and seeing the smoke plume and the air smelling like burnt shit.

Several kids in my class had parents who died on 9/11

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#76

Post by ShakataGaNai »

linsomniac wrote: post #65

I had a fairly weird 9/11 realtime experience. I had pulled an all-nighter and ended up going to sleep right around the time this all started happening. So I went to sleep blissfully unaware, and then was woken up by my wife. Within 30 seconds of being woken up I learned: "4 planes were hijacked. They were flown into the World Trade Center. The WTC collapsed." I kept waiting for the punchline, but then realized it wa…

Something similar from my side. Was in college, on the West Coast, and had no early classes so I was still asleep. It wasn't until the girlfriend's family called her and woke her up - that we found out something was wrong. They were on the East Coast and her father was flying that day (just ended up grounded and stuck for a few days). But I don't think we woke up until 8 or 9am PST, Noon East... so by the time we were awake it was "over". Totally surreal to wake up to something like that.

I don't think anyone at the entire College did anything but watch the News channels, even though there wasn't anything "new", for the next 2 days.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#77

Post by mc32 »

enterprise_cog wrote: post #74
mc32 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can feed them hashish or whatever and turn people into berserkers. Also, in mercenaries people do it for other reasons. Anyhow, when you look at the elated reaction from people in some areas of the world when it happened, one can see why people might react to that reaction with seething vengeance in mind.

You can see the ignorance of the people in this country from that anger. Those people celebrating were on the receiving end of American terrorism abroad.

Sometimes —but in many cases people in areas unaffected directly by American policy were celebrating as if they felt a tribalistic attachment perhaps to the aggrieved.

You're arguing that two wrongs make a right and in such argument the stronger party will win.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#79

Post by sanderjd »

blamazon wrote: post #35

There are so many incredible stories of heroism from this day, but, I will highlight that of Rick Rescorla. [1] After 1993, before 9/11: > Feeling that the authorities lost legitimacy after they failed to respond to his 1990 warnings, he concluded that employees of Morgan Stanley, which was the largest tenant in the World Trade Center, could not rely on first responders in an emergency and needed to empower themselve…

Thank you for that story.

Do you know of a book that covers the event from this angle? I'm totally tapped out on the usual treatment of the event focused on geopolitics before and after it, but I would like to read in long form about the actions of the actual people there and nearby that day.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#80

Post by adrianmonk »

enterprise_cog wrote: post #71
adrianmonk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intended by who? Are you saying the US government knew it meant war and had the foresight (and bandwidth) to arrange a coordinated propaganda campaign on the spot? People just being naturally angry seems like a simpler and perfectly sufficient explanation. We humans are pretty much hardwired to respond like that: when we believe we've been wronged, a special brain mode kicks in that pushes us toward taking action (id…

What a coincidence that raw anger led to enabling the plans of the Project for a new American century.

The sun coming up in the morning enables plans to generate solar power, but the sun doesn't require our intervention.
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