How They Tried to Kill Me • Hacker News Board

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#71

Post by neilv » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

denton-scratch wrote: post #17

Considering that she's presumably well-informed about global affairs, her resistance to the idea that russian secret services might be out to kill her, and especially her refusal to believe she might have been poisoned, is rather striking. It's almost as if she had no idea that russian agents have been poisoning prominent people in foreign lands for the last couple of decades. Perhaps she thinks she's not prominent e…

I don't know about the veracity of this particular story, but I've seen something like that denial before.

Someone accidentally stepped on the toes of some lawless dirty-tricks entity. They realized this after the fact. But when they seemed to get neutralized with very evil but textbook action, they said, in desperation (close from memory) "But why would ___?! I don't have any enemies!"

I'm not sure, but I think, if they would've been asked just then, they might've contradicted what they'd just said, to tell you who probably did it, and why they might get any of that party's attention. That might've been some powerful psychology speaking just then.

I suspect they were verbalizing reversion to their self image, and how they wanted the world to be. Something like this just wouldn't happen to them, and they're not in that world of stepping on the toes of characters like this, and don't want to be.

(Also, in case of this journalist, note the bit about the German official with poor bedside manner, when speaking with a potential victim of a heinous crime. Maybe the official was interrogating, or angry, or that was just their manner. The journalist spoke of shame as a reason, which I guess might be the journalist's cultural upbringing about being tough and not being the oppressed, but the German also seemed to be shaming.)

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#72

Post by golergka » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #53

tokamak wrote: post #13

[flagged]

You're talking about 140 million people here

No, he's talking about country/government, not people. I was born in Moscow and spent most of my life there, and I completely agree that people who live there would be much better of without the current government and most likely without the country in it's current form too.

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#73

Post by user3939382 » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

foldedcornice wrote: post #59

Kapura wrote: post #14

The part that really got to me was this paragraph: >“That is what drives us crazy,” the detective said. “You come here and act like you’re on vacation. Like this is some paradise. It doesn’t even occur to you to keep yourself safe. We have political killings here. The Russian special services are active in Germany. Your carelessness, yours and your colleagues, knows no bounds.” It's very difficult to reconcile what s…

This matches with an account by Bellingcat reporter Christo Grozev, who was interviewed by the Financial Times [1]: "How does it feel, I ask, to be here in absentia? Grozev laughs. After the Russians indicted him “in absentia”, he posted a selfie video from Palm Beach, Florida, against a sunset backdrop. “I said, ‘If this is absentia, it’s a pretty great place to be.’” "Is Austria the least safe European country? “Ye…

[flagged]

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#74

Post by Aeolun » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

0xDEF wrote: post #34

Kapura wrote: post #14

The part that really got to me was this paragraph: >“That is what drives us crazy,” the detective said. “You come here and act like you’re on vacation. Like this is some paradise. It doesn’t even occur to you to keep yourself safe. We have political killings here. The Russian special services are active in Germany. Your carelessness, yours and your colleagues, knows no bounds.” It's very difficult to reconcile what s…

I remember a few years back Iran send assassins to kill Iranian dissidents in Germany, Austria, and Belgium. The assassins were caught and politely returned to Iran on a private plane. No punishment for planned/attempted murder. The West is hopelessly naive about sophisticated and brutal adversaries like Russia and Iran.

Do you have a source for that? Because the story as told seems vanishingly unlikely. Maybe nothing could be proven but that they were there illegaly?

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#75

Post by olegious » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

dash2 wrote: post #56

selectodude wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not naïvety, it’s that that west would appreciate the same treatment when they send spies and assassins, which they do.

When has the West sent assassins to Iran or Russia?

The West prefers more refined tactics like missiles- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Qasem_Soleima...

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#76

Post by bee_rider » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

jackmott42 wrote: post #45

0xDEF wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a few years back Iran send assassins to kill Iranian dissidents in Germany, Austria, and Belgium. The assassins were caught and politely returned to Iran on a private plane. No punishment for planned/attempted murder. The West is hopelessly naive about sophisticated and brutal adversaries like Russia and Iran.

It is more general than the west, it is that Good people are naive. They don't understand how many people are willing to lie and kill to get even petty gains from it. The USA is struggling with this asymmetry internally right now too. We are slowly and politely trying to prosecute people who attempted to overturn an election while they incite civil unrest and pass laws protecting themselves from prosecution

It is good to be thorough with this stuff, and sometimes that means things go more slowly than we’d like. But the end result is that nobody reasonable could think it is a partisan witch hunt. It might be the case that a significant chunk of the populace is unreasonable, but that isn’t something that can be solved by changing courtroom procedures.

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#77

Post by proxysna » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:43 PM UTC

pxeger1 wrote: post #42

> I corresponded about my trip to Munich over Facebook Messenger. It’s not secure and I knew that Technically, this is intriguing. Is Facebook compromised, or do you think they compromised her phone, or the phone or whoever she was talking to?

Facebook work with cops all around the world, might as well be an official request from russian internal affairs.

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#78

Post by Aeolun » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:44 PM UTC

mannykannot wrote: post #52

AdamN wrote: post #39

The German counter-terrorism forces hold quite a bit of blame here. These things happening on German soil are unacceptable and it shouldn't be the victim's fault. What is German media saying about this?

What things could and should they have done here, if pointing out the author's naivete is unacceptable victim-blaming? The assassins are active in Germany because that's where their targets go, and the author's behavior both before and after the attack seems to have foreclosed on any effective policing.

Effective policing happens before someone is poisoned. Everything after is a bandaid.

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#79

Post by vxNsr » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

selectodude wrote: post #40

0xDEF wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a few years back Iran send assassins to kill Iranian dissidents in Germany, Austria, and Belgium. The assassins were caught and politely returned to Iran on a private plane. No punishment for planned/attempted murder. The West is hopelessly naive about sophisticated and brutal adversaries like Russia and Iran.

It’s not naïvety, it’s that that west would appreciate the same treatment when they send spies and assassins, which they do.

Again it is extreme naïveté, those assassins when caught are summarily executed. Iran will pick people off the street, accuse them of working for Israel and kill them, just to send a message to their own people. They’re not politely returning western assassins.

Re: How They Tried to Kill Me

#80

Post by qingcharles » Wed, Aug 16, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

0xDEF wrote: post #34

Kapura wrote: post #14

The part that really got to me was this paragraph: >“That is what drives us crazy,” the detective said. “You come here and act like you’re on vacation. Like this is some paradise. It doesn’t even occur to you to keep yourself safe. We have political killings here. The Russian special services are active in Germany. Your carelessness, yours and your colleagues, knows no bounds.” It's very difficult to reconcile what s…

I remember a few years back Iran send assassins to kill Iranian dissidents in Germany, Austria, and Belgium. The assassins were caught and politely returned to Iran on a private plane. No punishment for planned/attempted murder. The West is hopelessly naive about sophisticated and brutal adversaries like Russia and Iran.

Is it possible they had diplomatic passports?

Most spies are known to the host nations as they work out of the embassy under cover jobs with standard diplomatic passports, therefore they have diplomatic immunity if they run into trouble and the best the host country can do is permanently evict them.