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I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

theatlantic.com

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Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#71

Post by pnathan »

A big problem here is perceived risk and unwillingness to step out of the comfort zone.

The other problem is money: when you are dropping > $500/month on student loans, you have to have a job before you move.

I remember being graduated in 2006 with a BSCS and so broke I could not move without a relocation benefit. I was debating hitchhiking to Seattle or SF and bumming around with a laptop looking for coding work, but I wound up not having to.(Answer to this problem: save about 3K or so and don't ever let go).

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#72

Post by mc32 »

antninja wrote: post #66
cletus wrote: post #30

Reading through this list of anecdotes I had mixed emotions. I spent a significant amount of time unemployed 10+ years ago in the post-dotcom recession in the UK and it was awful. This was partly due to the highly unregulated nature of UK IT recruitment but the problem was the lack of jobs. Still, a see some problems in this article. Like "I graduated with a philosophy major in 2008". Bzzzzt. Sorry, you made choices.…

> Get a job. Any job. There's even more competition for the shitty jobs than for the good/specialized ones.

From time to time I've read articles about the dearth of (semi)skilled workers in machining, exploration, etc.

Factories clamor for skilled workers. The pay isn't bad either. IIRC, 60-80k/year is not unusual. And if people are willing to move to ND and join the oil shale rush, apparently unskilled workers can pull in low six figures.

I recall an anecdote of a truck driver who lost his job. He entered some program which would teach him some skills to make him marketable (something like welding).

He quit midway through because he said it didn't fit his lifestyle of freedom (ir something to that effect).

It kind of struck me as odd and somewhat selfish. I mean, I recall taking on really crappy jobs (like at oil change places) when I could not get anything better. I didn't like it. Yeah, it cramped my style, but it helped me get thru college and eventually university.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#73

Post by drats »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #56
drats wrote: post #26

As I see it the baby boomers, rightfully worried about their retirement, are going to camp out in most top positions longer than we expected or was normal in the past. This will inhibit upward mobility of younger people for quite some time (retirement ages are creeping up all across the Western world). Additionally they are demanding loyalty and commitment in the workplace from the younger generation for part-time an…

I don't buy into this logic. I'm sure it has an effect, but I don't see how a Baby Boomer working a job is worse for the economy than a Baby Boomer suckling on the government teat on retirement. It's not a zero sum game, if someone is doing productive work I think that's a net win for the economy.

I am just describing the situation as bleak, I am not saying they should retire and put even more pressure than they are going to on social security. In an ideal world these people would slip down a rung (just one, not to the bottom) and into part-time jobs and let fresh leadership take over and push innovation. But there is a more ideal world where they could retire now if they'd saved for it and hadn't run up so much debt. People don't just step down a rung though, it's not some ideal efficient labor market, they just use seniority to stay where they are. While it's obvious that a decade or two of experience can trump the 20-something hotshot more often than not - IQ peaks in the 20s and then declines but it's not as useful as people think versus experience - I am not so certain that the experience of someone in their late 60s or mid 70s can outweigh the cognitive decline they will experience (new medical research might hold some promise there I suppose).

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#74

Post by InclinedPlane »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #62
cletus wrote: post #30

Reading through this list of anecdotes I had mixed emotions. I spent a significant amount of time unemployed 10+ years ago in the post-dotcom recession in the UK and it was awful. This was partly due to the highly unregulated nature of UK IT recruitment but the problem was the lack of jobs. Still, a see some problems in this article. Like "I graduated with a philosophy major in 2008". Bzzzzt. Sorry, you made choices.…

> You can get from pretty much anywhere in the US to anywhere else for under $500. Unless you need to break the lease on your apartment, which is typically two months' rent - which typically tacks on another $1000, minimum.

If you are unemployed and just out of college you're living at home, not in an apartment.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#75

Post by InclinedPlane »

ctdonath wrote: post #49
lxt wrote: post #38

I'm really surprised they don't mention "I'd love to move but I can't sell my house in the current market." I know at least five people in this boat.

Mortgages are seductive. Get a nice place, up to or beyond social norms, but be tied to it for decades. Outright ownership, while humbling, gives far more flexibility.

A proper mortgage with a decent downpayment is effectively identical to ownership. The biggest advantages of a downpayment are protecting against just the sorts of problems we've seen. For one, saving up a downpayment shows that you are a fiscally responsible person with stable employment in the past. For another, it gives you instant equity and protects you against being upside down due to market fluctuations.

You put in your downpayment and a year or two of mortgage payments and even in the market goes down a bit you still have enough equity to avoid being trapped. You can sell or rent and move elsewhere.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#76

Post by drats »

masonhensley wrote: post #70
drats wrote: post #26

As I see it the baby boomers, rightfully worried about their retirement, are going to camp out in most top positions longer than we expected or was normal in the past. This will inhibit upward mobility of younger people for quite some time (retirement ages are creeping up all across the Western world). Additionally they are demanding loyalty and commitment in the workplace from the younger generation for part-time an…

>from article> Having graduated from a top-10 law program, I'm now making $36,000 a year and have $165,000 worth of student debt. This is the kind of stuff scares me about the economy moving forward. For those that are not familiar with student loans, one cannot their shed student loans under bankruptcy protection. (I do not think one should be able to back out of a student loan, because unlike a house which can be f…

Don't forget to add the $50k per capita share of the national debt, or the more uplifting calculation of $90k per actual tax-paying worker. So that person is working towards $255k of unavoidable debt on $36k a year before they can even start thinking about a house or retirement savings. And lawyers don't really make anything the world wants to buy, in the domestic market they are competing with a glut of other lawyers in similar situations. Nor do they even have the romantic "starving artist" narrative to console themselves with like the MFA grads.

Maybe the boomers will offer good money for healthy organs, or maybe selling a kidney will just get some surplus MREs from WWIII to eat as people huddle around the campfire in the badlands. Ok the last part's a joke, but it's not a brilliant scenario.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#77

Post by wonderzombie »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #56
drats wrote: post #26

As I see it the baby boomers, rightfully worried about their retirement, are going to camp out in most top positions longer than we expected or was normal in the past. This will inhibit upward mobility of younger people for quite some time (retirement ages are creeping up all across the Western world). Additionally they are demanding loyalty and commitment in the workplace from the younger generation for part-time an…

I don't buy into this logic. I'm sure it has an effect, but I don't see how a Baby Boomer working a job is worse for the economy than a Baby Boomer suckling on the government teat on retirement. It's not a zero sum game, if someone is doing productive work I think that's a net win for the economy.

Err, if you're referring to social security that's money that they've been paying into as part of their paycheck. But generally that's not the primary source of income AIUI. Most people were counting on their 401Ks which obviously took a hit by varying degrees. So there's a strong financial incentive for them to delay retirement as long as possible.

Medicare may be considered suckling on the govt teat but uh getting old is ridiculously expensive. I expect it would still not be enough depending on age and severity of medical conditions.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#78

Post by quandrum »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #74
pavel_lishin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can get from pretty much anywhere in the US to anywhere else for under $500. Unless you need to break the lease on your apartment, which is typically two months' rent - which typically tacks on another $1000, minimum.

If you are unemployed and just out of college you're living at home, not in an apartment.

Assuming you have a home and don't have to contribute.

I don't have much sympathy for the mindset displayed in this article (I've moved 5 times, ~4k miles total, on near minimum wage salaries), but you are making the same kind of assumptions these kids do.

A lot of people have struggling parents who aren't able to provide a free ride. Some people just have shitty parents.

It's easy to assume there is always a place to call home when you have it. Be glad you do.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#79

Post by jerf »

pixelcort wrote: post #44
jiggy2011 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big part of the problem is that in the UK people are encouraged by society to study what they are interested in ("it's about expanding your mind") and told that having any degree will give them a big advantage over the competition regardless. This may have been true 30 years ago but it isn't today. I remember some time ago I was out for a drink with a number of students who were completing a course in film…

I really wonder if it's not true today anymore, that college isn't for the liberal arts and is merely a career training endeavor. In fact I'd argue the opposite: that college bound students and their parents have the wrong expectation that going to college is merely a job preparation strategy. This may be culturally specific to English-based colleges, but often for a US-based 4-year degree, you spend half your time l…

Then you're going to have to figure out how to make your liberal arts a crapload cheaper. "Follow your bliss" and "spend $200,000 on school for vocational training" are two great tastes that go terribly together.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#80

Post by hnal943 »

randombit wrote: post #19
tmh88j wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The majority of people do not want to be entrepreneurs so their only option is to work for someone else where you are faced with more external forces. When you're in that situation, most people want to do the minimum and earn the maximum which we know rarely works. Let's face it, being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. It'…

> Let's face it, being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. > It's a lot of work and responsibility; something the > majority of 20-somethings can't handle. It's easy to forget that software is probably the least capital intensive industry that's open to a lone entrepreneur. Think about someone wanting to start, say, a basic small bakery operation. My wife did this, and the capital costs necessary to just get started…

How about dog walking? Lawn care? Those are just unskilled examples. There are all kinds of small business that you could do without significant investment, so long as you are willing to grow the business out of your earnings.
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