One thing Nick seems to miss the mark on is that it opens things up for people who have something to say but may not be able to express it in a way that conveys their feelings. Not everyone is a master story teller by default
Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
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Re: Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
#72Sorry, the business side of art has already done this to artists. I recall a famous songwriter, unfortunately I cannot remember their name to prove this, who used free association word games to write songs. Because nonsense lyrics have helped propel otherwise mediocre songs to commercial success. He would write songs just by putting down words, free associating those words, until he had something that sounded interes…
regarding Mr. Cave's critique:
From Alan Turing's paper, "COMPUTING MACHINERY AND INTELLIGENCE"[0]
"(1) The Theological Objection Thinking is a function of man's immortal soul. God has given an immortal soul to every man and woman, but not to any other animal or to machines. Hence no animal or machine can think."
regarding your comment:
If you haven't watched The Beatles: Get Back[1], I highly recommend it, if only to watch the Fab Four brainstorm lyrics.
[0]https://redirect.cs.umbc.edu/courses/471/papers/turing.pdf [1]https://www.thebeatles.com/beatles-get-back-disney-original-...
Re: Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
#73I don't see it this way. As someone who is capable of programming these tools in novel ways, I see it as a new method of translating the abstract patterns I have inside me into a more corporeal form that can be shared and interact in the global conversation. As an amateur artist it helps me produce a higher quality representation of whatever is in my mind, and often finds imagery that appeals to me on a deeper level than I have ever really been able to achieve on my own. I continue to practice without the machines (that's where you learn how to be creative), but I must be practical because I don't have much time for creation and have some aspiration of growing into a more creative career.
It's an instrument that few people understand yet and which lacks soul unless imbued with soul. It's a projector that expands whatever you feed into it. It can be used to create massive volume, and in the future that will be critical because there will be huge amounts of noise in the information atmosphere that can only be overcome by being bigger and louder. Don't dissuade the artists from using this - they're up against a typhoon of cacophony and need all the help they can get.
Re: Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
#74From the article: > ChatGPT is fast-tracking the commodification of the human spirit by mechanising the imagination. It renders our participation in the act of creation as valueless and unnecessary. That ‘songwriter ‘you were talking to, Leon, who is using ChatGPT to write ‘his’ lyrics because it is ‘faster and easier ,’is participating in this erosion of the world’s soul and the spirit of humanity itself and, to put…
Humanity is just starting to get some competition. Some people just can't deal with that. If genuine, unaided human creativity is so great then AI generated creations should not be much of a challenge. The sad fact, though, is that a lot of human creation is really not that good in comparison, or at the least is slow and expensive, while AI creations are often cheap, fast, and good -- you can have all three.
Eh if you understand the history of the Luddites you may see their position better.
If there is 'cheap' digital competition then a huge number of people end up with no way to survive in our current paradigm.
Re: Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you’re thinking of Jeff Tweedy, it’s far more complicated than what you described.
I am thinking of Jeff Tweedy, and it was a big bummer for me to hear that from them. Would love to be enlightened about why it's more complicated.
If you’re a fan, I recommend the book he wrote about songwriting. The method you described is a warmup exercise he uses before writing.
Re: Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
#76I don't see it this way. As someone who is capable of programming these tools in novel ways, I see it as a new method of translating the abstract patterns I have inside me into a more corporeal form that can be shared and interact in the global conversation. As an amateur artist it helps me produce a higher quality representation of whatever is in my mind, and often finds imagery that appeals to me on a deeper level…
I agree. I see ChatGPT as similar to music synthesizers. They enable creativity. Creativity in novel ways as well.
What if you want to express yourself with a violin sound but don't know how to play one?
Re: Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
#77A hack songwriter looks at other songs, mixes them together, and writes some songs. A true artist communicates something about their own experience of life through their songs (still taking inspiration in techniques of course from previous songs -- nothing is completely original!) ChatGPT is currently the ultimate hack songwriter. It has read every song and can remix to create new stuff like you wouldn't believe. But…
Funny you should say this. See https://www.theredhandfiles.com/originality-hard-to-obtain/
“What else have you stolen?” I ask Warren.
“Everything,” he says, “Absolutely, everything.”
Re: Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
#78From the article: > ChatGPT is fast-tracking the commodification of the human spirit by mechanising the imagination. It renders our participation in the act of creation as valueless and unnecessary. That ‘songwriter ‘you were talking to, Leon, who is using ChatGPT to write ‘his’ lyrics because it is ‘faster and easier ,’is participating in this erosion of the world’s soul and the spirit of humanity itself and, to put…
I’m taken aback by the idea of the integrity of the human spirit being kept together by songwriting and other artistic practices that AI threatens.
If anything, AI is proving how trivial certain aspects of art can be; that human beings have mechanized them at a scale that more vital aspects of life have yet to experience.
Re: Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
#79From the article: > ChatGPT is fast-tracking the commodification of the human spirit by mechanising the imagination. It renders our participation in the act of creation as valueless and unnecessary. That ‘songwriter ‘you were talking to, Leon, who is using ChatGPT to write ‘his’ lyrics because it is ‘faster and easier ,’is participating in this erosion of the world’s soul and the spirit of humanity itself and, to put…
I strongly disagree. Even as imperfect as the current crop of LLMs are, I'm doing things today that year-ago-me would have considered firmly in the realm of science fiction. It's reinvigorating my creative drive across the board, and I love it. I'm getting to make the Interesting Choices that lead to Art faster and more freely than ever. Others will feel differently, and that's ok. I find myself not even mad at such…
Strong agree. I started writing a comic series in 2016, but had to stop in part because commissioning the art was prohibitively expensive. AI image generation is quickly erasing that ability gap.
Most publically consumed art is made by large teams, which naturally leads to a dilution of a singular artists vision. With the current quality mass media, I'm excited to see singular geniuses with the power of whole production companies at their finger tips.
Re: Nick Cave on ChatGPT and the creative process
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you saying people who make "true art" should not be doing it for reward, or should not be as interested in money as non-artists? This is enormously reductive and is quite a modern idea. Most artists in history have made art for gain. It is a bold strategy to suggest that Nick Cave is confused by ideas of income and art. I don't care who you are: on this topic, Cave is almost 100% certainly better informed than yo…
All kinds of markets have been upturned by technology, what makes music more special?
I made no suggestion that it is. I am just reacting to the condescending attitude to one of the great musicians and cultural thinkers of our times.
People who are less excited or connected to the coal face of technology are not necessarily ignorant or engaging in motivated reasoning if they question an innovation.