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The Future of the Vim Project

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Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#71

Post by RobertSponge »

vxNsr wrote: post #11

Everyone puts off estate planning in general for obvious reasons (most people don’t want to think about their own mortality) all the more so, most don’t give a thought to digital estate planning, it’s especially hard because there are very few resources to do it and most apps/websites don’t have that workflow planned out (Afaik, really only Facebook does anything for this). My wife and I share a password manager acco…

I scrapped my self built server that runs snowflake TrueNAS with zfs doodads and replaced it with simple synology. It has mostly default settings with no encryption.

My wife has no idea about tech and I want it to be easy for her to access our digitised family media and documents, once I no longer around. Any tech literate people/shop can figure out how to pull data out of synology.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#72

Post by em-bee »

ftaghn wrote: post #27
GneissFrog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No future for Vim without Bram? People said the same thing about Apple when Steve Jobs passed away. Turns out, as long as you have loyal users and competent people working, things can keep on chugging right along. It seems a bit ridiculous to dismiss reunification when you don't even know what kind of compromises might be made to make it happen.

I would not be so prompt to compare the situation with Apple and Jobs. Apple is a company that provides something no one else does while also holding a lock on its users. You can't go and install iOS apps on android. On the other hand, vim and neovim are almost the same thing, and wherever they diverge, it is always to the detriment of vim. I would not be very optimistic for the future of vim considering that nobody…

Where will they find people willing to continue working on vim's code base

the same place where neovim found its developers. if one group of people can organize themselves to maintain and develop their version of vim. so can another. i don't know how many contributors vim has, but i am sure they can figure out how to move forward. finding new leadership can be difficult when there is no clear candidate, but if the contributors had not wanted to work on vim they would not have been there in the first place.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#73

Post by zelos »

anta40 wrote: post #66
zelos wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've switched to Neovim, but there doesn't seem to be a macOS UI nvim client that's quite as polished as MacVim.

That's why I still keep vim updated on my mac system. For nvim, the closest one I found is VimR.

I'm using Neovide for now, which seems to be gathering momentum, but I still miss MacVim. I had a fair few crashes with VimR that ruled it out for me.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#74

Post by plugin-baby »

fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

I tried switching recently, mainly because I wanted treesitter. I couldn’t get it working after half a day messing about, a lot of documentation seemed out of date, and I don’t think my standard plugins + .vimrc worked out of the box. My main focus is getting things done, not fiddling with configs and versions, so I gave up. I figure I’ll try again in a couple of years if it’s still tempting.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#75

Post by em-bee »

vxNsr wrote: post #11

Everyone puts off estate planning in general for obvious reasons (most people don’t want to think about their own mortality) all the more so, most don’t give a thought to digital estate planning, it’s especially hard because there are very few resources to do it and most apps/websites don’t have that workflow planned out (Afaik, really only Facebook does anything for this). My wife and I share a password manager acco…

as long as she has the passwords she can ask others for help. if you have kids, maybe they can learn how to run your things.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#76

Post by Dobbs »

ftaghn wrote: post #27
GneissFrog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No future for Vim without Bram? People said the same thing about Apple when Steve Jobs passed away. Turns out, as long as you have loyal users and competent people working, things can keep on chugging right along. It seems a bit ridiculous to dismiss reunification when you don't even know what kind of compromises might be made to make it happen.

I would not be so prompt to compare the situation with Apple and Jobs. Apple is a company that provides something no one else does while also holding a lock on its users. You can't go and install iOS apps on android. On the other hand, vim and neovim are almost the same thing, and wherever they diverge, it is always to the detriment of vim. I would not be very optimistic for the future of vim considering that nobody…

> On the other hand, vim and neovim are almost the same thing, and wherever they diverge, it is always to the detriment of vim.

They are quite different at this point and personally I prefer vim over neovim. I've never gotten NeoVim to work satisfactorily. I've had issues with the async setup where the backend and frontend start having issues with each other or lag. So on. Personally I find vim to be a lot simpler to work with and MacVim in particular to just be a perfect GUI for me.

Of course YMMV. The point being is that there are a many of us that prefer normal Vim over the NeoVim work. That's okay. Its also okay that others prefer NeoVim over Vim. There is nothing wrong with that. What there is something wrong with is the way that many NeoVim people are reacting to this.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#77

Post by School-Cotton »

oblio wrote: post #20
tokai wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>better if they merge You and meitham are very focused on this, but it is very much an opinion and not a fact.

It is an opinion backed by watching Open Source projects for several decades. Long lived forks are rarely good for an individual project. Frankly, the most successful forks I've seen unfortunately... kind of strangle off the original. Jenkins/Huson, LibreOffice/OpenOffice, MariaDB/MySQL, ConsoleZ/Console2/... Though there are cases where the original wins out: Emacs/XEmacs, etc. Especially since it's not like Vim/Neo…

LibreOffice is the mainline, not a fork in anything but the name.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#78

Post by kqr »

OskarS wrote: post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

I'm lucky enough to never have been put in this situation, so please excuse my ignorance: why does someone need to be able to sign in to my accounts when I'm no longer?

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#79

Post by user3939382 »

oblio wrote: post #33
fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

Inertia. Such base programs basically need to go through the Debian packaging gauntlet if they want to succeed. What I mean by that is that generally they need to persuade distros to be anointed the "official" tool, i.e. Debian or Fedora would have to select Neovim as the new default text instead of Vim. Then you need a few years for the changes to trickle down everywhere: Debian -> Ubuntu-> Mint -> ..., Fedora -> RH…

> Inertia.

At some point I tried to switch and some setting broke in my config (mouse mode?) I forget what it was. It took me another 3-4 years before I tried again.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#80

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

bombcar wrote: post #31
goku12 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neovim team has always been positive towards Vim. This post doesn't paint the Vim team as being hostile either. However, I really wonder how practical a merge is, considering that neovim isn't a fork or Vim, rather an implementation from scratch. Edit: Looks like I'm wrong about neovim not being a fork of vim.

These types of mergers have occurred in the past and it usually is the dominant project adopting the use and feel of the features the other has different. Shells acting differently depending on how you call them, for example.

I am not sure how you reconcile some of the philosophical differences between the projects. One of the first objectives of NeoVIM was to dump code for obsolete computing platforms. A ton of legacy code was deliberately removed so as to streamline the project.

If I recall correctly, one of the reasons the original async patch was ostensibly rejected was because it would rely on a C89(?) compiler. That was considered too disruptive a change that would make Vim accessible on fewer platforms.

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