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How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

economist.com

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Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#71

Post by isykt »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #30
isykt wrote: post #17

The world’s largest deposit of ultra pure quartz, which is needed for the very high end processors, is in North Carolina. The renaissance is real, or is about to be.

Is it difficult to refine less-pure quartz? I just assumed they had processes for eliminating any and all contaminants.

It is only done in China, Japan, the United States, Germany, and Italy. Since some of the newer semiconductors are shaped at 99.9999999999% (literally, 10 9s) pure, only a few places in the world can do the purification. China, and only China, can do 99.9999999 (Seven 9s) at scale, which is good enough for solar panels.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#72

Post by stanfordkid »

Spooky23 wrote: post #36
bob1029 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking about moving out to that area. Building these fabs will do amazing things for the local community & economy. It is also likely the most resilient part of the TX power grid...

It’s the worst business to work for. You’ll work 60 hours a week for shitty pay, and be the Yoda of some tool. In 10 years there will be a new magic tool. Then you start learning the Starbucks menu.

Sounds like the ideal type of trade to build a union for?

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#73

Post by sudosteph »

isykt wrote: post #17

The world’s largest deposit of ultra pure quartz, which is needed for the very high end processors, is in North Carolina. The renaissance is real, or is about to be.

Yep, near Spruce Pine, NC. My Grandad lived his whole life in that area and would tell stories about mining mica and riding the trains they used to transport it. There's still a bit of the train system left, at a local amusement park, Tweetsie Railroad.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#74

Post by CoastalCoder »

isykt wrote: post #71
CoastalCoder wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it difficult to refine less-pure quartz? I just assumed they had processes for eliminating any and all contaminants.

It is only done in China, Japan, the United States, Germany, and Italy. Since some of the newer semiconductors are shaped at 99.9999999999% (literally, 10 9s) pure, only a few places in the world can do the purification. China, and only China, can do 99.9999999 (Seven 9s) at scale, which is good enough for solar panels.

Sorry, let me clarify: I'm assuming that the requirements are so stringent that all quartz ore needs to be purified.

So I'm wondering how much the initial ore purity really matters.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#75

Post by vsareto »

bagacrap wrote: post #63
Spooky23 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the worst business to work for. You’ll work 60 hours a week for shitty pay, and be the Yoda of some tool. In 10 years there will be a new magic tool. Then you start learning the Starbucks menu.

Why can't you learn the next tool? Everyone in a tech field has to retain the ability to learn new things over time. AI might not take our jobs but it will likely change them. I guess it sucks if you have a fear of learning. Admittedly, at first learning a new thing can be kind of uncomfortable, like getting into a cold swimming pool. But once you get over the initial shock and start moving around, it's not so bad.

Continuous reskilling for bad pay sucks, especially when you can’t reap from your investment of being a specialist for the first tool. Or the old tool is changed for bad reasons.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#76

Post by overtomanu »

bee_rider wrote: post #41
gostsamo wrote: post #24

Surprisingly few people engage with the main points of the article. It is pointed out how much money are spent, but the article is about how profitable those fabs will be. The author is conservative in judgments, but they ask a few questions worth considering, mainly: are the fabs big and efficient enough to offset the slower build, which is also more expensive, for lower volumes of production.

I think most of us only can reply to the first paragraph or so, and the first plot, because of the paywall. So most of the conversation is about the headline.

Below extension will be useful

https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#77

Post by overtomanu »

_8j50 wrote: post #5
adamanz wrote: post #3

https://archive.is/jmpBa

Thanks, but can't get past captcha. 12ft.io blocked it and archive.ph doesn't work on my browser due ri ssl error. Anyone know other sites?

Below extension seems to work

https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#78

Post by riskable »

psd1 wrote: post #50

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't fabs need plentiful water? Why Arizona and Texas...?

Fabs need ultra pure water and it's cheaper to recycle the water they use than rely on city water supplies. So they need a ton of water initially but once they're up and running they don't need much water after that. Because of this, even a desert environment like Arizona is fine.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#79

Post by qbasic_forever »

bagacrap wrote: post #63
Spooky23 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the worst business to work for. You’ll work 60 hours a week for shitty pay, and be the Yoda of some tool. In 10 years there will be a new magic tool. Then you start learning the Starbucks menu.

Why can't you learn the next tool? Everyone in a tech field has to retain the ability to learn new things over time. AI might not take our jobs but it will likely change them. I guess it sucks if you have a fear of learning. Admittedly, at first learning a new thing can be kind of uncomfortable, like getting into a cold swimming pool. But once you get over the initial shock and start moving around, it's not so bad.

Because for this work it's cheaper for the company to hire a new person with a lower starting wage vs. keep employing and paying higher wages to more experienced workers.

It's not the worker's fault they can't learn the new tool (they absolutely can learn it). It's capitalism's fault for valuing workers only for the cost of their labor and nothing else.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#80

Post by jagged-chisel »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #42
tylerfontaine wrote: post #9

I live in a relatively small city that has a 30B phased wafer fab project under way, and an another separate 5B wafer fab project underway, and plans for at least one more in the next couple years. Anecdotal, of course, but there's some real things being built for sure.

Is that a city that TSMC is already throwing under the bus and saying the American workers there are lazy and not cut out for their harder Taiwanese business/work ethic? https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/29/tsmc-arizona-chip-plant-delay... I don't think any of this onshoring, if it ever actually happens, is going to be a net positive for the areas that host the fabs. TSMC is already sending hundreds of their own workers ov…

Is this perhaps just sour grapes from TSMC because they actually need to train the new workforce?
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