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Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

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Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#71

Post by PlutoIsAPlanet »

messe wrote: post #14
blcknight wrote: post #5

Hard to imagine Britain joining both the Euro and the Schengen zones. I just don’t see the British public not thinking they’re special and demanding exceptions and carve outs just for them.

I suspect they could maintain an opt out for the Schengen, purely because a land border exists with Ireland, which isn’t part of the Schengen area either. (That being said I’d like it if Ireland joined Schengen, as it makes it just a tad more convenient when flying to the rest of the EU) Doubtful that they could avoid a commitment to joining the eurozone though.

Apart from the visa policy I can’t imagine how the UK joining the Schengen would change much.

Airports would still require travel documentation (e.g id card or passport)

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#72

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

pasttense01 wrote: post #64
c7DJTLrn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Or a second referendum held once the terms of the actual withdrawal deal were known Exactly, nobody voting for Brexit even knew what they were voting for! Many just had some nebulous, fantastical idea of independence from some "evil" organisation in Brussels.

Actually a lot of politicians and media were talking about something like the EFTA (Norway, etc) arrangement with the EU--and this is what a lot of voters wanted. So they ended up with something vastly different from what they wanted [and would have voted Remain if they had known what the final result was going to be.]

To be fair, this made absolutely no sense. It would have been less harmful yes, but a large financial power like the UK would never have accepted being a rule taker.

I mean that happened anyway, but at least they don't need to keep all of the laws.

Honestly, I never understood why EFTA made any sense for the UK (although as an Irish person I'd have been very happy if they went that way).

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#73

Post by kramerger »

mutatio wrote: post #55
kramerger wrote: post #9

Please don't. Things have been so much smoother in the EU since UK left. Their politicians had this idea that Europe was out to screw them in every deal and that made it a very annoying 30 years of "collaboration".

I'm a remainer, how do you think your portrayal comes across? Even the mere financial contributions alone (net contributor) should be acknowledged and recognized as a force for good for the project during our tenure. Some countries also appreciated our counterweight to the French/German hegemony.

A Scandinavian politician one said, no matter what UK representatives achieved they would go back home to Sunday Mail news headlines about how they had failed, sold UK short and so one.

As a result, if EU offered X, UK representatives would argue that they must get at least X + 25%. During the 30 years this continued, it led to an atmosphere of distrust and aggressive behaviour that honestly the rest of EU was very tired of.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#74

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

mutatio wrote: post #55
kramerger wrote: post #9

Please don't. Things have been so much smoother in the EU since UK left. Their politicians had this idea that Europe was out to screw them in every deal and that made it a very annoying 30 years of "collaboration".

I'm a remainer, how do you think your portrayal comes across? Even the mere financial contributions alone (net contributor) should be acknowledged and recognized as a force for good for the project during our tenure. Some countries also appreciated our counterweight to the French/German hegemony.

I know that I did. FWIW, if you're from any of the post 2004 members then the UK is the reason that the enlargement happened.

Additionally given that we'll all need security cooperation for the foreseeable it would be easier if that took place under the EU aegis.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#75

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

mpweiher wrote: post #63
mutatio wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well only even the most pious remainers would accept the Euro as a currency and removing fiscal sovereignty, so it's a total non-starter. The special treatment for the old guard (German automotive, French farming industries) also needs to be expunged.

"60 per cent of Britons now think Brexit was the wrong decision and would vote to rejoin the EU at a second referendum" Do you think these 60% are unaware that there would be no special deals? And it's 79% of young voters, so even just the demographics will only shift this further, in addition to the ever more obvious data showing just how disastrous Brexit has been, that all the claims were lies. And what special tr…

It's called the Euro ;)

I'm sortof not really joking but the German export driven economy would have been much harder to maintain with the DM.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#76

Post by blibble »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #67
blibble wrote: post #10

remember: the FT have managed to mis-predict every single major UK political event relating to brexit: - they'll vote remain - they'll ignore the referendum result - they won't invoke article 50 - the article 50 court case will prevent it being triggered - we won't exit - we'll stay in the single market they simply have no understanding of how the electorate think (though I suppose it's possible they may eventually g…

To be fair, they're a business paper and from an economic perspective Brexit made absolutely no sense, so it's not that surprising.

maybe it's unrealistic that political journalists should have some insight of the subject matter beyond that of a politics student

(similarly: their recently retired stock-picking columnist revealed he'd never traded a stock)

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#77

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

messe wrote: post #14
blcknight wrote: post #5

Hard to imagine Britain joining both the Euro and the Schengen zones. I just don’t see the British public not thinking they’re special and demanding exceptions and carve outs just for them.

I suspect they could maintain an opt out for the Schengen, purely because a land border exists with Ireland, which isn’t part of the Schengen area either. (That being said I’d like it if Ireland joined Schengen, as it makes it just a tad more convenient when flying to the rest of the EU) Doubtful that they could avoid a commitment to joining the eurozone though.

Unfortunately Ireland will definitely not join Schengen unless the UK rejoin and do the same, as it would really mess up our border with Northern Ireland. I too would like it for the convenience but it's very unlikely to happen.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#78

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

blibble wrote: post #76
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, they're a business paper and from an economic perspective Brexit made absolutely no sense, so it's not that surprising.

maybe it's unrealistic that political journalists should have some insight of the subject matter beyond that of a politics student (similarly: their recently retired stock-picking columnist revealed he'd never traded a stock)

Did you expect any of those things? Like I followed the process religiously and I kept being surprised by the sheer insanity of all the UK government decisions.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#79

Post by sys_64738 »

mutatio wrote: post #65
sys_64738 wrote: post #19

General de Gaulle was right in the 60s that the brits are more trouble than they're worth. France is smart and won't let them back in. Brexit is now and forever as far as the EU is concerned.

The guy who famously received safety for himself and his family in Britain during the war, what a thanks indeed... Believe it or not I've heard this anecdote told as a projection of anti-European sentiment, have you considered what might have been for the Anglo-European relationship had he not felt France was the centre of the European project and portrayed the UK this way?

He saw Britain as a stooge for the USA. He was right. He still is.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#80

Post by mutatio »

sys_64738 wrote: post #79
mutatio wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy who famously received safety for himself and his family in Britain during the war, what a thanks indeed... Believe it or not I've heard this anecdote told as a projection of anti-European sentiment, have you considered what might have been for the Anglo-European relationship had he not felt France was the centre of the European project and portrayed the UK this way?

He saw Britain as a stooge for the USA. He was right. He still is.

Then it appears we had no choice, a self fulfilling prophecy.
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