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I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

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Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switchable graphics do indeed suck. I returned a laptop because of it, despite being told specifically the model I ordered did not have Optimus hybrid graphics. But it's not unsolvable. It's problem with companies not supporting Linux. Nvidia just joined the Linux foundation and ways to accommodate switchable graphics are already being discussed. It rules out some of the newest hardware in the short term but I have n…

> The Software Center... [is] far better than what's available on Windows at the moment I agree on this, though not everything that can or should be installed on Ubuntu comes through the Software Center or even as a .deb or apt repo. For things outside of this, a .exe file on Windows has the upper hand. .exe (or .msi) is a Windows universal. .deb and .rpm are not Linux universals. > Installers can block each other on…

>And it's frustrating.

Absolutely, on any system. I'll admit I swear every now and again when I get caught trying to run apt-get with synaptic open on another workspace.

>You will notice I said "it has to be better than 'better than Windows'", because "better than Windows" still means "learning something other than Windows".

I agree. I guess I'm guilty of accepting a limitation because it's commonplace. I assume overcoming that limitation on Ubuntu/any system using apt would be extremely technically challenging and given the few times it occurs it's not a priority.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#72
post #38

Some people (on this thread, too) seem to think that in order for Linux to be successful, it needs to become Windows. I think the exact opposite is true. Linux will never beat Windows at being Windows. But it may well be the superior operating system for many people. If you ask me, this is what Linux should strive for, and incidentally, what it probably is striving for. Hardware compatibility is pretty good already.…

I agree. I don't see why a normal "surf-the-web, read emails, import/upload pictures" -person couldn't have Linux as their main desktop, especially if it's a user friendly distro like Linux Mint or Ubuntu. The main problem is that people haven't used a Linux desktop before and most are reluctant to try anything new (just notice how everyone curses every time FB changes something about the interface). It helps to have…

Actually, I think it isn't even reluctance to learn something new--people aren't even aware of Linux as an option, and if they are they think it's only for geeks. I bet if you could go out and get a $500-800 laptop at places like Staples, more normal people would be using Linux.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#73

I strongly disagree, and take exception to the fact that this "article" is 3 paragraphs long with zero information yet throws out the idea that Linux, even Ubuntu, is 1:1 competitive with Windows or OSX on the desktop. Contrary to the author, hardware is still a mess. Have a Lexmark wireless printer? Tough luck, there is no way to print to it from Linux. Have switchable graphics? Good luck there, too. Want your new l…

>> Linux won't be ready until you can download a file from the Internet, run it, and install it just with a couple clicks (and not "you need to set the 'exectuable' flag!" error).

I probably agree with a lot of your other assertions, but this seems to miss one of the central purposes of a repository-based package manager system.

Security may not be a very high priority at this moment for novice users of Linux distributions, but it will swiftly become one as Ubuntu continues to gain popularity. The old paradigm you're describing - download a solitary binary, double-click to install it across the system - is a huge security hole that Microsoft (for instance) has spent and will spend billions of dollars to patch around; the vast majority of exploits on Windows machines seem to be based on the fact that an unsuspecting user can easily download and run code that is swiftly given root access to their whole machine.

The repository system - a system where the set of programs available for easy download and installation is carefully managed and maintained - is an idea that was decades ahead of its time, and it's only just now that repositories (and their children, "app stores") are becoming a fact of life on lots of platforms. App stores are useful because they make things easier for users, but they're also extremely beneficial from a security standpoint. They also offer a simple, obvious, secure way for individual applications to be updated and patched when necessary.

tl;dr - Novice users should be strongly discouraged from downloading and installing standalone programs. This is not a feature of Windows; it's a bug. Yes, there are lots of essential Linux programs that are not available easily on the Ubuntu Software Center. The solution to that problem is to improve the repositories by adding them. Making it easier for novice users to run downloaded code blindly would be a mistake.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#74
post #3

I am unfortunately forced to disagree. I recently moved my home machine from Windows to Linux. After a little research, I picked Ubuntu 11.10 (with Unity). The installation went by pretty smoothly, everything seemed to work out of the box. The only manual configuration I had to do was to teach my Linux box to ping my Windows laptop. So far so good. Then, 2 weeks later, my disk went out of space. Turns out Ubuntu has…

That sounds more like you ran in to some random, unfortunate bug more than an indictment of Linux. All systems have bugs like that and yet people don't bail from OS X or Windows as soon as they encounter one.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#75
post #49

Funny. On my netbook, Ubuntu used to feel like it was finally ready about one major version ago. Today, 11.10 is so unusably slow it might actually make Windows Vista feel competitive. I thought it might be the outdated video card but then Unity 2D made no actual difference; any simple UI interaction still sucks CPU hard. Just for some icing on the cake, the Wi-Fi driver is now also causing random kernel panics on my…

Today, 11.10 is so unusably slow it might actually make Windows Vista feel competitive.

Unfortunately, I'm having the same experience on my desktop. Unity didn't fit the way I prefer to work (and yeah, I tried it for a while, I didn't just dismiss it without some effort), and I switched to KDE. Holy slowness, Batman...my Windows 7 desktop becomes usable much faster (on the same machine) than the Kubuntu desktop. Applications sometimes take forever to start, with no rhyme or reason. I haven't chosen to explicitly install anything new--I just have the same basic boring dev and scientific computing packages I've always had.

And yes, Ubuntu used to feel like it was usable "out of the box" one major version ago. Then they started adding bells and whistles, and since then it's just been a steady degradation in performance.

Sure, I can probably go fiddle with a bunch of settings somewhere, but as soon as I have some downtime I'm going to try out some other distros that--hopefully--don't feel the need to add a bunch of performance-sucking features by default.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#76

Some people (on this thread, too) seem to think that in order for Linux to be successful, it needs to become Windows. I think the exact opposite is true. Linux will never beat Windows at being Windows. But it may well be the superior operating system for many people. If you ask me, this is what Linux should strive for, and incidentally, what it probably is striving for. Hardware compatibility is pretty good already.…

I agree. Windows and Mac OS X don't have to fail for Linux to succeed.

What do you mean "to succeed"? I consider Linux a success...

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#77
post #56

Making Linux usable by the “general public” was eschewed by the Linux community for years. I've been part of the linux community since 1994, and I have never once heard anyone express a desire to prevent mainstream adoption. Quite the contrary - many, many people have been strident evangelists over the years (to the point that it could be quite annoying; whatever the question the answer was linux) and many, many peop…

I agree -- the Linux community, on the whole, has always wanted mainstream adoption. Annual "year of desktop Linux" proclamations going back to the mid-90's attest to it!

The challenge, IMO, is that adding polish to a general-use desktop is really really hard -- it requires design talent, cannot easily be done by committee, and takes a long time. Think years of design and constant redesign, lots of tweaking (down to individual pixels!), never-ending usability testing, and iterative writing, discarding, and re-writing of UI code.

While some in the Linux community have long had the design know-how and experience necessary to make Linux usable by Aunt Tillie, until very recently no one had the long-term commitment, financial resources, managerial skill, and staying power necessary to pull it off.

Canonical brings not just design talent, but also long-term commitment, financial resources, managerial skill, and staying power to the table; they have the best shot at making Linux a mainstream desktop OS.

[ ADDENDUM: Google also has an equally good shot with ChromeOS. ]

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#78
post #62

I strongly disagree, and take exception to the fact that this "article" is 3 paragraphs long with zero information yet throws out the idea that Linux, even Ubuntu, is 1:1 competitive with Windows or OSX on the desktop. Contrary to the author, hardware is still a mess. Have a Lexmark wireless printer? Tough luck, there is no way to print to it from Linux. Have switchable graphics? Good luck there, too. Want your new l…

"Have a Lexmark wireless printer? Tough luck, there is no way to print to it from Linux." Lexmark printer compatibility page for Ubuntu; https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardwareSupportComponentsP... setting up a lexmark x4650 printer for wireless printing with 64 bit ubuntu; http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1692003

Do you really think a non-technical person is going to follow these steps? Excuse me while I LOL.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?s=6ea2f28955ceeb4024e4f...

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#79

I strongly disagree, and take exception to the fact that this "article" is 3 paragraphs long with zero information yet throws out the idea that Linux, even Ubuntu, is 1:1 competitive with Windows or OSX on the desktop. Contrary to the author, hardware is still a mess. Have a Lexmark wireless printer? Tough luck, there is no way to print to it from Linux. Have switchable graphics? Good luck there, too. Want your new l…

I agree, sleep functions still don't work on my hardware and gnome 3 is unfortunately designed to make shutdown inconvenient.

Another problem you did not mention is tearing during video playback. Desktop computers are heavily used for watching video, so until Wayland hopefully fixes this Linux won't be a great desktop replacement.

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